The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 22, 2019, 10:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 169
Free Kick Out of Bounds

Is a free kick kicked out of bounds untouched by R (6-1-9) a live ball foul or a dead ball foul?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 22, 2019, 10:40am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,966
Lbf.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 22, 2019, 01:54pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
You have to have a live ball to have this even take place. So if it is coupled with another foul during the kick, then you could choose to offset them if the receiving team committed a foul as well. Don't overcomplicate this.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 22, 2019, 11:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middleman View Post
Is a free kick kicked out of bounds untouched by R (6-1-9) a live ball foul or a dead ball foul?
NFHS; 2-35 advises, "RFP signifies that the ball may be put in play by a snap or free kick......, so once the ball is snapped or free kicked (after an RFP) the ball is "live"
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 22, 2019, 11:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You have to have a live ball to have this even take place. So if it is coupled with another foul during the kick, then you could choose to offset them if the receiving team committed a foul as well. Don't overcomplicate this.
Last year we got a new rule allowing R the option of having fouls by K enforced from the succeeding spot (10-4-2 Exception). Some of our officials think this means that R can select an option for the kick out of bounds, then ADD ON the penalty for the live ball foul committed by K during the kick. If kicking the ball out of bounds is a live ball foul, then R will have to choose enforcement of one or the other foul, but not both.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 12:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
NFHS; 2-35 advises, "RFP signifies that the ball may be put in play by a snap or free kick......, so once the ball is snapped or free kicked (after an RFP) the ball is "live"
No question that the ball is live and a down is in progress while the kick is still a kick. That's not what I asked.

The foul occurs when the ball becomes dead - the instant it becomes dead. Not before, not after. A live ball foul occurs during a down, a dead ball foul occurs after the down has ended. So, therein lies my question.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 07:16am
CT1 CT1 is offline
Official & ***** Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middleman View Post
Last year we got a new rule allowing R the option of having fouls by K enforced from the succeeding spot (10-4-2 Exception). Some of our officials think this means that R can select an option for the kick out of bounds, then ADD ON the penalty for the live ball foul committed by K during the kick. If kicking the ball out of bounds is a live ball foul, then R will have to choose enforcement of one or the other foul, but not both.
R can choose:
1) 5 yd penalty from the previous spot and rekick, or
2) Take the ball at the R-35, or
3) Take the ball at the OOB spot PLUS a 5 yd penalty.

I’m guessing some officials are incorrectly allowing R to take option 2 plus 5 yards?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 09:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middleman View Post
No question that the ball is live and a down is in progress while the kick is still a kick. That's not what I asked.

The foul occurs when the ball becomes dead - the instant it becomes dead. Not before, not after. A live ball foul occurs during a down, a dead ball foul occurs after the down has ended. So, therein lies my question.
Dead is dead, but before you can be dead, you have to have been alive. The music never ends for those angels dancing on pinheads, but for those learning when to stop listening life is a lot simpler.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 10:08am
Chain of Fools
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,648
If it was dead ball foul, there would only be one penalty option.

A similar situation exists in reverse if the kicking team violates the back 5 yd restraining lin, pop up kicks, or overloads. It is not a foul until the ball is kicked but it results in killing the play and a DBF

The 5 yard penalty on FKOOB can be tacked on in the case where R elects to take the spot where the ball went out.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 10:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middleman View Post
No question that the ball is live and a down is in progress while the kick is still a kick. That's not what I asked.

The foul occurs when the ball becomes dead - the instant it becomes dead. Not before, not after. A live ball foul occurs during a down, a dead ball foul occurs after the down has ended. So, therein lies my question.
Interesting. We could probably think of other cases where the same act is both a foul and makes the ball dead. How about illegal participation by someone who's standing out of bounds and reaches in-bounds to touch the ball? Or a runner who removes his helmet?

I think some snap infractions are saved from being in that category by the ball's being ruled retroactively never to have become live.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 12:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
R can choose:
1) 5 yd penalty from the previous spot and rekick, or
2) Take the ball at the R-35, or
3) Take the ball at the OOB spot PLUS a 5 yd penalty.

I’m guessing some officials are incorrectly allowing R to take option 2 plus 5 yards?
Well, that too. But what I was driving at was a live ball foul committed by K during the kick, such as Holding or Personal Foul, added on to the choice for the kick out of bounds.

Play: During a free kick, K65 blindsides R28 at the R-25 yard line. The kick rolls out of bounds untouched at the R-12 yard line. What choices does R have?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 03:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middleman View Post
Well, that too. But what I was driving at was a live ball foul committed by K during the kick, such as Holding or Personal Foul, added on to the choice for the kick out of bounds.

Play: During a free kick, K65 blindsides R28 at the R-25 yard line. The kick rolls out of bounds untouched at the R-12 yard line. What choices does R have?
NFHS: 10-2-1: "t is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than nonplayer or USC, during the same live ball period. See a-c for details.... In a, b & c the penalties cancel and the down is replayed."

NFHS: 9-4 (Illegal personal Contact)-n: Execute a blindside block outside the FBZ with forceful contact unless initiated with open hands.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 06:26pm
Chain of Fools
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,648
Quote:
what I was driving at was a live ball foul committed by K during the kick, such as Holding or Personal Foul, added on to the choice for the kick out of bounds.
Multiple foul- R must choose which one they want.


ajmc- you need to re-read his post. Both fouls posited were by K
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 06:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
Multiple foul- R must choose which one they want.


ajmc- you need to re-read his post. Both fouls posited were by K
Oops! (Nevermind)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 24, 2019, 12:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middleman View Post
Well, that too. But what I was driving at was a live ball foul committed by K during the kick, such as Holding or Personal Foul, added on to the choice for the kick out of bounds.

Play: During a free kick, K65 blindsides R28 at the R-25 yard line. The kick rolls out of bounds untouched at the R-12 yard line. What choices does R have?
R can decline the FKOOB and take the ball at the spot where it went OOB (12 yd line) and then accept the PF from there.
Or R can decline the FKOOB and have the free kick repeated with a 15 yd penalty, backing K to the K25.
If A accepts the FKOOB, then they will have to decline the PF.
Can't get em both.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Free Kick Out of Bounds Scuba_ref Football 11 Tue Oct 16, 2012 04:36pm
Free Kick Out Of Bounds Blue37 Football 6 Wed Aug 01, 2007 04:46pm
Free Kick going out of bounds gtwbam Football 10 Mon Aug 07, 2006 03:54pm
free kick out of bounds MRIGUY Football 3 Fri Sep 30, 2005 02:33pm
Free Kick Out-of-Bounds Thom Coste Football 2 Mon Sep 04, 2000 06:10pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1