Free Kick Out of Bounds

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Middleman

Is a free kick kicked out of bounds untouched by R (6-1-9) a live ball foul or a dead ball foul?

NFHS; 2-35 advises, "RFP signifies that the ball may be put in play by a snap or free kick......, so once the ball is snapped or free kicked (after an RFP) the ball is "live"

[Middleman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

NFHS; 2-35 advises, "RFP signifies that the ball may be put in play by a snap or free kick......, so once the ball is snapped or free kicked (after an RFP) the ball is "live"

No question that the ball is live and a down is in progress while the kick is still a kick. That's not what I asked.

The foul occurs when the ball becomes dead - the instant it becomes dead. Not before, not after. A live ball foul occurs during a down, a dead ball foul occurs after the down has ended. So, therein lies my question.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Middleman

No question that the ball is live and a down is in progress while the kick is still a kick. That's not what I asked.

The foul occurs when the ball becomes dead - the instant it becomes dead. Not before, not after. A live ball foul occurs during a down, a dead ball foul occurs after the down has ended. So, therein lies my question.

Dead is dead, but before you can be dead, you have to have been alive. The music never ends for those angels dancing on pinheads, but for those learning when to stop listening life is a lot simpler.

[HLin NC]

If it was dead ball foul, there would only be one penalty option.

A similar situation exists in reverse if the kicking team violates the back 5 yd restraining lin, pop up kicks, or overloads. It is not a foul until the ball is kicked but it results in killing the play and a DBF

The 5 yard penalty on FKOOB can be tacked on in the case where R elects to take the spot where the ball went out.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Middleman

No question that the ball is live and a down is in progress while the kick is still a kick. That's not what I asked.

The foul occurs when the ball becomes dead - the instant it becomes dead. Not before, not after. A live ball foul occurs during a down, a dead ball foul occurs after the down has ended. So, therein lies my question.

Interesting. We could probably think of other cases where the same act is both a foul and makes the ball dead. How about illegal participation by someone who's standing out of bounds and reaches in-bounds to touch the ball? Or a runner who removes his helmet?

I think some snap infractions are saved from being in that category by the ball's being ruled retroactively never to have become live.