Pylon

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Its not OOB until it hits something OOB. When do you stop the clock on a pass that is thrown OOB? When it crosses the line or when it hits something OOB?

I would say all 3 would be touchbacks

Correct as to when the ball is out of bounds. But how about as to the out-of-bounds spot as per 4-3-1?

I hope you're not saying the live ball's touching the plane of the goal line supersedes the spotting of the ball via the out-of-bounds spot, because then in Altor's example of the ball's landing 5 yds. OOB 2 yds. beyond the goal line, that'd be a touchback too, provided the plane of the goal line extends indefinitely past the sideline. I'm sure the rules makers didn't intend it to be a touchback in that case, so why would it automatically be a touchback if it touched an object just inches out of bounds?

I think the practical answer in the case of the loose ball's hitting the pylon is that the pylon is supposed to represent a dimensionless point at the intersection of the goal & side lines, even though in reality it occupies space. So touching any part of it is deemed to be touching that point.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You might want to reread the rule on punts out of bounds in particular.

That's true. My mistake.

[whitehat]

Lets look at it in "reverse" for a second and see what that does.

What if the pylon definition said a pylon properly placed is completely "in" bounds?
This would seem to make more sense if we then say, If the ball touches the pylon while in player possession going in its a TD, Or, If the pylon is hit by kick we have a TB since all kicks not going out of bounds but breaking the plane of the goal line, in bounds (where the pylon by our new definition now is) are Touch backs.

This would eliminate us confusing how the ball can touch something that is completely "out" of bounds and yet the ball remains "in" bounds (so to speak) in the EZ.

[Altor]

The pylon is fine where it is.

Please understand: I'm not suggesting anybody ignore the approved/official ruling. I just think that ruling is wrong. It flies in the face of physics and common sense in my mind. We all have rules and rulings that we disagree with.

[whitehat]

Thanks for the Pylon discussion. A wierd little object for sure :-)

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Altor

The pylon is fine where it is.

Please understand: I'm not suggesting anybody ignore the approved/official ruling. I just think that ruling is wrong. It flies in the face of physics and common sense in my mind. We all have rules and rulings that we disagree with.

Similar to the NFL and NFHS Rule codes being different, so are the rules for Football and Physics. It all depends on which game you're playing.

[9thIsleZebra]

Originally Posted by whitehat

1. If the properly placed pylon is "out of bounds" (1-4) why do we consider a ball in player possession (A runner going towards B' goal line) that touches the pylon a TD?

2. Kick off heading towards EZ, hits one of the front pylons: Touch back or Kick out of bounds?

Actually the rule reads "When properly placed, the goal line pylon is out of bounds at the intersection of the sideline and goal line extended". So if one considers the goal line extension, the pylon would be completely in the end zone. So on scrimmage kicks and free kicks where the ball hits the pylon before going OOB it actually breaks the plane of the goal line. Result is a touchback.