Illegal Forward Pass Question

[paulsonj72]

Play situation in Class 6A Minnesota semi final tonight late in game. Team A completes a forward pass then the receiver pitches the ball forward and it falls to the ground incomplete. Team B falls on the ball Team A had moved beyond the line to gain. Officials gave the ball back to Team A as the 2nd forward pass at the spot of the pass(illegal forward pass fell incomplete and Team B declined 5 yard penalty) Is this correct. Team B(defensive team won the game on the last play by tackling Team A receiver at 10 yard line after hail mary pass was complete)

[jTheUmp]

Yes, that's correct, but why on earth did Team B decline the penalty (5 yards from spot of pass + loss-of-down)?

[paulsonj72]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Yes, that's correct, but why on earth did Team B decline the penalty (5 yards from spot of pass + loss-of-down)?

The Loss of Down didn't mean anything as Team A had the 1st down on the initial pass completion but not sure why they didn't take the 5 yards.

[paulsonj72]

Don't know how to embed and isolate the specific play but here is a link to the entire game broadcast. The forward pass play occurs at about 2:16:40. If someone can isolate and embed it please do so. Thank you very much.

East Ridge Vs Maple Grove Boys Football 11/6/15- School Space Media TV

[BoomerSooner]

Is it possible that B thought it would be treated like a fumble if they declined it, but as an illegal forward pass (and therefore an incomplete pass) if they accepted it. I guess the most likely way this happens is that the referee gives the preliminary signal and before he can talk to a captain to give the options, the head coach for B starts waiving to decline the penalty. The by-the-book referee accepts their decision and because once a decision is made it is final doesn't bother to explain to anyone there is no reason not to accept the penalty.

Disclaimer - what I'm about to suggest is an unlikely explanation, but I'm putting this out there because I have some weird obsession with end of game clock management. I guess watching coach after coach go brain dead when the clock gets under 3 minutes is getting to me. I'm sure watching the video would support that what follows is not the case in this situation.

An alternate explanation is that it is possible that B didn't want the yardage. I gave the scenario in another thread of an offensive coach declining a penalty so as to not move the ball within the 10 yard line to start a new series. The purpose of this would be that the offense could run out the clock with 2 series but not with only 1. For example, Scenario 1: 1st and 10 at the 14. After 3 plays A gets a first and G at the 3 and could then kneel to run out the clock (they get 6 plays in this scenario). vs. Scenario 2: During a long run B is flagged for an incidental face mask while tackling A at the 14 yard line. The additional 5 yards results in a 1st and G at the 9 yard line. A will be able to run 4 plays before either a turnover on downs or scoring (TD or FG). Reversing this logic, if A committed the illegal forward pass at the 8 yard line, it is possible that B wanted A to only be able to have 1 series before scoring or turning the ball over so that he would have time to mount a drive to answer the score.

[ajmc]

"Knowledge has no value unless it's used, or shared". In a general sense, our function is to apply (what we hope) is a better understanding of the rules of the game consistently. With penalty options, that includes accurately presenting the options to those making decisions.

In most situations, that's a pretty straightforward choice, but in some situations, details of some particulars of the options can have a material effect on the decision, and it's our job to insure those particulars are conveyed and understood by the decision makers.

Their job is to select the proper option, after having been given ALL the pertinent facts about their options. In high pressure, or high emotion, situations it's our function to calmly present any and all pertinent details, to assist the decision maker's choice.

[Rich]

Another obvious choice here that got screwed up.

But this play requires some explanation to the coach...one that includes "you don't want to decline this one....."

[Altor]

This was the sequence in the video.

1st and 10 from A20 with 0:18 (according to the announceers). Completed pass to A27, followed by an incomplete pass that lands at the A32. L initially drops his bean bag, but after blowing the play dead, marks the ball at the A27 and decides he should have thrown a flag instead.

After an initial discussion, R signals an illegal forward pass, says it was declined and gives the ball to team B. After further discussion, he signals the illegal forward pass, says the pass was incomplete (which looks like it's being declined), loss of down, 2nd down. While he's explaining, U is marching off 5 yards. Result of the play is ball on A22, 2nd and 8, 0:06 remaining.

[jTheUmp]

Just watched the video. So they didn't decline the penalty... but I could see how an untrained observer might've thought that they did.