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Old Mon Oct 19, 2015, 11:13pm
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Post NCAA Ruling for Downed Punt

Need the NCAA rule here: Punting team A made a punt and it rolled down towards the end zone. Team A player jumped into the end zone (didn't touch the ground), tapped the ball while in the air and it landed on the 1yrd line. All this is acceptable but....when the ball was tipped and rolled around on the 1, a Receiving team player B was running towards the end zone and kicked the ball from the 1 back through the end zone. No other players touched the ball. Is the ball dead on the 1yrd line where the Player A tapped it out of the end zone, before being kicked by defensive/receiving team player B? Is there any penalty?
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2015, 01:03am
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Originally Posted by fbinsh View Post
Need the NCAA rule here: Punting team A made a punt and it rolled down towards the end zone. Team A player jumped into the end zone (didn't touch the ground), tapped the ball while in the air and it landed on the 1yrd line. All this is acceptable but....when the ball was tipped and rolled around on the 1, a Receiving team player B was running towards the end zone and kicked the ball from the 1 back through the end zone. No other players touched the ball. Is the ball dead on the 1yrd line where the Player A tapped it out of the end zone, before being kicked by defensive/receiving team player B? Is there any penalty?
A's jumping into the end zone, with or without touching the ground, is immaterial. Where the ball was at the time of touching is material, & you didn't specify it.

When you say a player of B kicked the ball, did you mean deliberately, or just that the foot happened to contact the ball?
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:49am
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Player A touched the ball at the 1yrd line....and as it was still spinning, Player B, that was running after the ball, saw Player A touch the ball and about 2 seconds later deliberately kicked it thinking it was dead (not maliciously, just kind of ran into it and it rolled into the end zone - however, he could of stepped over it). Is the ball dead when touched at the 1yrd line and nothing matters after that or is there a fumble or a penalty or something? No one else got there to 'down it' properly.
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbinsh View Post
Player A touched the ball at the 1yrd line....and as it was still spinning, Player B, that was running after the ball, saw Player A touch the ball and about 2 seconds later deliberately kicked it thinking it was dead (not maliciously, just kind of ran into it and it rolled into the end zone - however, he could of stepped over it). Is the ball dead when touched at the 1yrd line and nothing matters after that or is there a fumble or a penalty or something? No one else got there to 'down it' properly.
So it sounds like we have first touching by K, which occurred in the field of play, and a subsequent illegal kick by R. Is that right?
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:15am
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Yes the guy tapped the ball to keep it out of the end zone (but did not leave a hand on it) and it rested on the 1yrd line.

The guy chasing on the receiving team was there when it was tipped and was spinning on the ground and he kind of shuffle-kicked it into the end zone.

Was it dead as soon as the kicking team guy touched it and it rested on the 1yrd line?
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:56pm
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Originally Posted by fbinsh View Post
Yes the guy tapped the ball to keep it out of the end zone (but did not leave a hand on it) and it rested on the 1yrd line.

The guy chasing on the receiving team was there when it was tipped and was spinning on the ground and he kind of shuffle-kicked it into the end zone.

Was it dead as soon as the kicking team guy touched it and it rested on the 1yrd line?
Well, which was it -- at rest, or spinning?

The ball's becoming dead always precedes the whistle (unless it's an inadvertent whistle), so it's possible (can't tell from your description) that it came to rest w no player attempting to further play it, in which case it would be dead before it was kicked, which could mean kicking it was delay of game or unsportsmanlike (have to see it to judge), a half-the-distance enforcement. If not, then it was a live ball illegally kicked.

If the latter, then the result of the play (ball put into & thru the end zone by team defending that goal) is a safety. However, if the kicking team declines the penalty for the illegal kick, the receiving team has the choice of the spot of the kicking team's illegal touch to have the receiving team put the ball in play from. If the kicking team accepts the penalty for the illegal kick, that cancels the receiving team's choice of spot of illegal touch. The basic spot becomes the post-scrimmage kick spot, which in this case is B's 20 yd. line (because the original kick didn't become dead until it went over B's end line, the status of the ball not changed by the subsequent illegal kicking of it), and then the spot of the foul is behind that point, so that's the enforcement spot. You'd go half the distance to B's goal line from the spot of the ball when it was illegally kicked.

So it makes hardly any difference whether you rule that the ball was already dead when it was kicked again, or the kicking wasn't intentional, or it was intentional & you go thru the rigamarole of choices. It's going to be the receiving team's 1st down either where the ball was or 50% closer to the goal line, which under the circumstances you describe would be almost the same place.
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:20pm
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Originally Posted by fbinsh View Post
Yes the guy tapped the ball to keep it out of the end zone (but did not leave a hand on it) and it rested on the 1yrd line.

The guy chasing on the receiving team was there when it was tipped and was spinning on the ground and he kind of shuffle-kicked it into the end zone.

Was it dead as soon as the kicking team guy touched it and it rested on the 1yrd line?
The kick is not dead just because of first touching by K. Ruke 6-3-7 describes the ball being dead when the ball is at rest between the goal lines, with the word AND before the phrase "no player attempts to secure it". It is critical to determine if you want to deem R to be attempting to secure the ball.
If not, you could kill the play, but R was entitled to recover and advance the ball. Another legitimate ruling may be that he illegally kicked the ball, which is a live-ball foul. ACCEPTED Live ball fouls eliminate the first touching. K can accept or decline R's illegal kick. If they accept, it's half the distance from the 1.
If there had been no first touching, K could decline the penalty and take the Safety.
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Old Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:21am
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I should add that it'll be 1st & exactly 10 yds. to go even if you rule UC or delay of game for kicking a dead ball, because it's a foul between series.
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