Side Snap Still Legal?

[patriots87]

This week playing 8-man Jr.High Flag football, we were had with the "Wrong Ball" trick play. Center side snaps to the QB and yadda yadda TD.

Is the side snap legal (center stands up and hands the ball sideways to the QB)? I remember seeing this play in HS football a few years ago on youtube, but, I can't really get a clear interpretation of Legal vs. Illegal snap from the 2015 NFHS rule book.

Thanks!

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by patriots87

Is the side snap legal (center stands up and hands the ball sideways to the QB)?

Handing the ball sideways to the QB is legal. As far as the overall action, you'd have to see it, although I can describe what you'd be looking for. Once the ball starts moving, does it keep moving backwards until he's rid of it? Its up or down component of movement is immaterial. Is the movement of the ball quick & continuous?

[jTheUmp]

Side snaps, in and of themselves, are legal as long as they comply with the requirements in 2-40-2.

However, the "wrong ball" play is illegal.

Originally Posted by *9.10.1 SITUATION B, emphasis mine

From a field goal formation, potential kicker A1 yells, "Where's the tee?" A2 replies, "I'll go get it" and goes legally in motion toward his team's sideline. Ball is snapped to A1 who throws a touchdown pass to A2.

RULING: Unsportsmanlike conduct prior to snap. The ball should be declared dead and the foul enforced as a dead-ball foul.

COMMENT: Football has been and always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusual formations and creative plays. However, actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal.

Unfortunately, there are A LOT of officials (especially those working the Jr High and below ranks) who do not both to know the rules and case plays well enough to know that these types of plays aren't legal.

[HLin NC]

A legal snap must be continuous motion. Standing up and handing would not meet that definition. I'm fairly certain that's in any year rule book..

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

A legal snap must be continuous motion. Standing up and handing would not meet that definition.

I think it could. The snapper on standing up would have to have the ball in 1 or both hands. If he were pulling back, that would be a backward motion of the ball. Then all the snapper has to do is keep it moving backward by turning or by continuing the motion by other means. For instance, the snapper could pull the ball back & up like a passer doing a pass set & raising the ball to his shoulder, at which point the quarterback could take the ball from him, or the snapper could just throw it backward over his shoulder. Or the snapper could raise the ball overhead for it to be snatched as in the Statue of Liberty play. No end to the possibilities. But it has to be done quickly, not in slow motion.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I think it could. The snapper on standing up would have to have the ball in 1 or both hands. If he were pulling back, that would be a backward motion of the ball. Then all the snapper has to do is keep it moving backward by turning or by continuing the motion by other means. For instance, the snapper could pull the ball back & up like a passer doing a pass set & raising the ball to his shoulder, at which point the quarterback could take the ball from him, or the snapper could just throw it backward over his shoulder. Or the snapper could raise the ball overhead for it to be snatched as in the Statue of Liberty play. No end to the possibilities. But it has to be done quickly, not in slow motion.

Nonsense, doesn't sound anything like NFHS 7-1-3, or 2-40. The "POSSIBILITIES" are defined and limited by the judgment of the covering OFFICIAL, and are only "limitless" when allowed to be.

[OKREF]

It has to be one continuous motion backwards. If there is any delay, or the ball rests in the snappers hand, I'm calling a snap infraction.

[bigjohn]

This week playing 8-man Jr.High Flag football, we were had with the "Wrong Ball" trick play. Center side snaps to the QB and yadda yadda TD.

Is the side snap legal (center stands up and hands the ball sideways to the QB)? I remember seeing this play in HS football a few years ago on youtube, but, I can't really get a clear interpretation of Legal vs. Illegal snap from the 2015 NFHS rule book.

You gave them a TD??

Who cares if the snap is legal or not??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UIdI8khMkw

[patriots87]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

You gave them a TD??

Who cares if the snap is legal or not??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UIdI8khMkw

I care. I was going bananas telling the official that the play was illegal, but it didn't matter. So I'm attempting to confirm that I was correct.

Thank you all for your answers!!

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Nonsense, doesn't sound anything like NFHS 7-1-3, or 2-40. The "POSSIBILITIES" are defined and limited by the judgment of the covering OFFICIAL, and are only "limitless" when allowed to be.

And you can't see an official seeing anything like what I described as fitting the requirements? How do you know it couldn't? The rule puts no restriction on any additional things the snapper might be doing with the ball or his body, it sets only the minimum requirements.

I'll give you yet another way: Snapper with both hands on the ball turns around 180 degrees with it by a motion of 1 or both feet, and a back in motion takes it out of his hands at that point. The ball might meanwhile be raised to ankle, knee, waist, or shoulder height. Bonus: At that point the snapper might be a yard back of his line of scrimmage, and thus able to receive an immediate forward handoff from that same back.

If the rules makers wanted to forbid these types of snaps, they could have. For instance, Canadian rules don't share with the American ones the requirement that the ball leave the snapper's hands immediately, but they add the requirement that the snap go between the snapper's legs. At one time Canadian rules outlawed hand-to-hand snapping. So there are certainly ways to specify snapping the ball differently; as long as they don't, the rules mean only what they say, and nothing extra or less.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

And you can't see an official seeing anything like what I described as fitting the requirements? How do you know it couldn't? The rule puts no restriction on any additional things the snapper might be doing with the ball or his body, it sets only the minimum requirements.

I'll give you yet another way: Snapper with both hands on the ball turns around 180 degrees with it by a motion of 1 or both feet, and a back in motion takes it out of his hands at that point. The ball might meanwhile be raised to ankle, knee, waist, or shoulder height. Bonus: At that point the snapper might be a yard back of his line of scrimmage, and thus able to receive an immediate forward handoff from that same back.

If the rules makers wanted to forbid these types of snaps, they could have. For instance, Canadian rules don't share with the American ones the requirement that the ball leave the snapper's hands immediately, but they add the requirement that the snap go between the snapper's legs. At one time Canadian rules outlawed hand-to-hand snapping. So there are certainly ways to specify snapping the ball differently; as long as they don't, the rules mean only what they say, and nothing extra or less.

Snap infraction. This isn't one, continuous motion backwards.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

And you can't see an official seeing anything like what I described as fitting the requirements?

Not where I work. Although I've worked in several States, at different levels, the only definition I'm currently concerned with is NFHS 2-40-1,2 & 3.

If you want to invent new (never going to happen) definitions, you can pretty much do whatever you like, wherever you choose. `

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Snap infraction. This isn't one, continuous motion backwards.

The ball is moving backward continuously, so it's a continuous backward motion.

I've been told previously that the motion of the ball doesn't have to be in a straight line to be continuous. For instance, there's a promo video by the Green Bay Packers in which the snapper moves the ball backwards between his legs in his hand, then passes it far out to a flanker on the side after the snapper's hand w the ball in it is clear of the snapper's butt. The motion of the snap is a bent one, but it never stops moving backwards.

[Welpe]

Here is what constitutes a legal snap:

ART. 2 . . . The snap begins when the snapper first moves the ball legally other than in adjustment. In a snap, the movement must be a quick and continuous backward motion of the ball during which the ball immediately leaves the hand(s) of the snapper and touches a back or the ground before it touches an A lineman.

In picking up a ball and turning to hand it to the quarterback, the ball is moving backward continuously but it is not immediately leaving the snapper's hands.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The ball is moving backward continuously, so it's a continuous backward motion.

I've been told previously that the motion of the ball doesn't have to be in a straight line to be continuous. For instance, there's a promo video by the Green Bay Packers in which the snapper moves the ball backwards between his legs in his hand, then passes it far out to a flanker on the side after the snapper's hand w the ball in it is clear of the snapper's butt. The motion of the snap is a bent one, but it never stops moving backwards.

Does the NFL know the Packers are playing under NFHS rules?