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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 17, 2015, 11:50am
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Incident in NJ

Linden High School lineman rips off opponent's helmet and uses it to BASH him | Daily Mail Online


What in the world is going on with the kids these days?

Apparently the kid was flagged for UC but was NOT EJECTED from the contest.

What the what????
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Last edited by Canned Heat; Thu Sep 17, 2015 at 12:06pm.
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Old Thu Sep 17, 2015, 12:15pm
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Not ejected? yikes that's a scary thought. how in the world could a crew leave a player like that on the field?
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Old Thu Sep 17, 2015, 12:41pm
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Well, he was kicked off the team, and the school is apparently considering assault charges.
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Old Thu Sep 17, 2015, 12:43pm
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Just a rule detail clarification. By rule this was a "Personal foul" not an "Unsportsmanlike" foul. UNS fouls are "non"- contact behavior like abusive or foul language, taunting, excess celebration, etc., and are always penalized as dead ball fouls from the succeeding spot.

This was actually two fouls 1. A live ball 15 yard Face Mask foul, which would include a replay of the down after the half the distance to the goal yardage penalty from the end of the run. And, 2. Since the striking occurred apparently just as the play ended, a dead ball flagrant "personal foul" would be tacked on as well, half the distance to the goal. And of course an ejection of the player.
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Old Fri Sep 18, 2015, 10:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehat View Post
Just a rule detail clarification. By rule this was a "Personal foul" not an "Unsportsmanlike" foul. UNS fouls are "non"- contact behavior like abusive or foul language, taunting, excess celebration, etc., and are always penalized as dead ball fouls from the succeeding spot.

This was actually two fouls 1. A live ball 15 yard Face Mask foul, which would include a replay of the down after the half the distance to the goal yardage penalty from the end of the run. And, 2. Since the striking occurred apparently just as the play ended, a dead ball flagrant "personal foul" would be tacked on as well, half the distance to the goal. And of course an ejection of the player.
So the rule that penalizes throwing punches wouldn't extend to this action? Nor would the rule that allows the Referee to make necessary rulings for situations not specifically mentioned in the rulesbook? I don't think that the NFHS thought players would use their opponents equipment as a weapon. Violence like that shouldn't be tolerated, period. I'd rather write up the ejection report than explain why that kind of person isn't off the field.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 19, 2015, 08:41am
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Let's get to the real question.

How the **** was this kid not ejected from the game? If I was coaching the other team, I'd pull my team off the field until the kid was out of the stadium.
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Old Mon Sep 21, 2015, 09:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehat View Post
Just a rule detail clarification. By rule this was a "Personal foul" not an "Unsportsmanlike" foul. UNS fouls are "non"- contact behavior like abusive or foul language, taunting, excess celebration, etc., and are always penalized as dead ball fouls from the succeeding spot.

This was actually two fouls 1. A live ball 15 yard Face Mask foul, which would include a replay of the down after the half the distance to the goal yardage penalty from the end of the run. And, 2. Since the striking occurred apparently just as the play ended, a dead ball flagrant "personal foul" would be tacked on as well, half the distance to the goal. And of course an ejection of the player.
You guys need a single foul that includes contact and ejection. Here in Canada, our contact foul that carries DQ is 25 yards!
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Old Mon Sep 21, 2015, 10:00am
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Just goes to show you, no one knows what FLAGRANT means!
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Old Mon Sep 21, 2015, 02:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchamp View Post
So the rule that penalizes throwing punches wouldn't extend to this action? Nor would the rule that allows the Referee to make necessary rulings for situations not specifically mentioned in the rulesbook? I don't think that the NFHS thought players would use their opponents equipment as a weapon. Violence like that shouldn't be tolerated, period. I'd rather write up the ejection report than explain why that kind of person isn't off the field.
Clarification: I am merely addressing the difference in an unsportsmanlike and a flagrant personal foul as it pertains to this play. The OP referred to this as an UNS foul. It is not by defintion and UNS, but rather a flagrant personal foul. so in answer to your question, NO, not by definiton. "Unsportsmanlike" fouls deal with only fouls of the "non-contact" variety. Although this was certainly unsportsmanlike behavior in street and human terms, it does not meet the rule book definiton of an UNS foul because it involves contact. This NJ player foul was, by definition, a "contact foul" and an appropriate ejection was certainly covered by the flagrant personal foul rule.

We are talking here merely about definition by "rule book" and their consequent live ball vs dead ball enforcement implications. If this is ruled and UNS foul, then a single UNS foul does not warrant an ejection (must have 2 UNS fouls to warrant an ejection.) However, just one flagrant personal foul (which this one was) warrants and ejection.
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Old Mon Sep 21, 2015, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehat View Post
Clarification: I am merely addressing the difference in an unsportsmanlike and a flagrant personal foul as it pertains to this play. The OP referred to this as an UNS foul. It is not by defintion and UNS, but rather a flagrant personal foul. so in answer to your question, NO, not by definiton. "Unsportsmanlike" fouls deal with only fouls of the "non-contact" variety. Although this was certainly unsportsmanlike behavior in street and human terms, it does not meet the rule book definiton of an UNS foul because it involves contact. This NJ player foul was, by definition, a "contact foul" and an appropriate ejection was certainly covered by the flagrant personal foul rule.

We are talking here merely about definition by "rule book" and their consequent live ball vs dead ball enforcement implications. If this is ruled and UNS foul, then a single UNS foul does not warrant an ejection (must have 2 UNS fouls to warrant an ejection.) However, just one flagrant personal foul (which this one was) warrants and ejection.
I copied and pasted so the reporter in this story may not have his UNS vs. PF jargon intact either when it came out....just for the record.

And from what I see from the Fed book.....a single UNS CAN BE ( and should be) subject to ejection, if flagrant.

SECTION 8 NONCONTACT UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT BY NONPLAYERS
ART. 1 . . . No coach, substitute, athletic trainer or other team attendant shall
act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the game officials assume authority for
the contest. Examples are, but not limited to:
a. Using profanity, insulting or vulgar language or gestures.
NOTE: The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended or designed
to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any circumstances including on the
basis of race, religion, gender or national origin.
b. Attempting to influence a decision by a game official.
c. Disrespectfully addressing a game official.
d. Indicating objections to a game official’s decision.
e. Using any illegal communication equipment as outlined in 1-5-3c(2) and 1-
6.
f. Holding an unauthorized conference.
NOTE: Between downs, communications between players and coaches near the
sideline are not an unauthorized conference.
g. The failure of a team to:
1. Be ready to start the first half;
2. Be on the field following the conclusion of the halftime intermission or
be ready to start the second half at the conclusion of the mandatory
warm-up period and;
3. Comply with the restrictions of 3-2-2 at the coin toss or simulated coin
toss.
h. Failure of the head coach, following verification, to have his player(s) wear
or use legal and/or required equipment.
i. Being on the field except as a substitute or replaced player. (See 3-7-6; 9-
6-4a)
j. Using tobacco or smokeless tobacco.
k. Being outside the team box, but not on the field. (See 9-8-3)
l. A substitute leaving the team box during a fight.
ART. 2 . . . Three attendants, none of whom is a coach, may enter the field to
attend their team during a charged time-out or a TV/radio time-out, during the
one-minute following a try, a successful field goal or safety, and prior to the succeeding
free kick, between periods and during an official’s time-out for unusual
heat and humidity. During a time-out for injury, the coach and/or such attendants
as may be deemed necessary by the referee may, with permission, enter to attend
the injured player(s). In no other case, except as in 2-6, shall any nonplayer other
than an entering substitute enter without the referee’s permission.
ART. 3 . . . A nonplayer shall not be outside his team box unless to become a
player or to return as a replaced player. A maximum of three coaches may be in
the restricted area. No player, nonplayer or coach shall be in the restricted area
when the ball is live.


PENALTY: Nonplayer fouls (Art. 1a through j) – (S27), (S7-27 if dead ball) – 15
yards. Nonplayer fouls charged to the Head Coach (Art. 1g and 1h) – (S27),
(S7-27 if dead ball) – 15 yards. Nonplayer foul (Art. 2) – (S19) – 5 yards,
unless repeated – or unsportsmanlike – (S27) – 15 yards. (Arts. 1k, 3) – (S15)
– First offense-warning. (S7-29) – Second offense – 5 yards, each subsequent
offense – (S7-29-27) – 15 yards. (Art. 1l) –(S27-47) – 15 yards and disqualification.
(Arts. 1, 2, 3) Any single flagrant foul is disqualification. A second
unsportsmanlike foul with a 15-yard penalty results in disqualification. (See 9-
5 PENALTY) A disqualified member of the coaching staff shall be removed
from the stadium area and be prohibited from any further contact, direct or
indirect, with his team during the remainder of the game. For failure to comply,
the referee may forfeit the game.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:19am
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Agree that the player should have been ejected. However, has anybody else seen where the guilty player is placing the blame on the victim. The claim is that the victim continually speared the victim and used racial slurs. I personally am tired of hearing that racial slurs were used. That has become the go to defense for all sorts of stupidity.
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