We need a new signal for IF!

[CT1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Low blocks in many areas of the line, not just a confined area as small as the FBZ, changes for a player that goes in motion as well.

But that has nothing to do with formation fouls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

But that has nothing to do with formation fouls.

I did not say it did. We have other things to watch or observe than just a formation foul, which is why I do not see why this change would be so much better. How hard is it to communicate you have 10 players and adjust? Two people are counting the offense every play and should be able to tell the wings that there are 10 and realize how many are in the backfield.

Peace

[Rich]

You have other things to watch for? Sure, you do.

But you still need to know if there's IF -- that's a wing's call, nobody else's. You're counting backs regardless of how the rule's written.

(1) Fewer than 7 on the line? Now you need to know how many are on the field.

(2) 5 in the backfield? Now you don't need to worry about the number of A players on the field. Your job's actually easier!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

You have other things to watch for? Sure, you do.

But you still need to know if there's IF -- that's a wing's call, nobody else's. You're counting backs regardless of how the rule's written.

(1) Fewer than 7 on the line? Now you need to know how many are on the field.

(2) 5 in the backfield? Now you don't need to worry about the number of A players on the field. Your job's actually easier!

Again a solution looking for a problem. I do not see anyone having a hard time with this. It is so rare that you have 10 on the field, who cares how many are in the backfield. That is why you count. You count 4 in the backfield and there are 12 on the field now what? Are you going to assume you have the right number on the field?

Peace

[CT1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again a solution looking for a problem. I do not see anyone having a hard time with this. It is so rare that you have 10 on the field, who cares how many are in the backfield. That is why you count. You count 4 in the backfield and there are 12 on the field now what? Are you going to assume you have the right number on the field?

No, because you should always count the team first. THEN you can look for the number of backs.

It ain't rocket science.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CT1

No, because you should always count the team first. THEN you can look for the number of backs.

It ain't rocket science.

In 5-man, the wings (LJ primary, HL if he gets to it) are counting the defense with the BJ and are then getting the offensive count from the R/U, then counting the backs.

What I've said at least twice now, which hasn't gotten through cause someone doesn't ever want to hear, is if the rule was changed there's be no reason for the wings to have to pick up the count of the offense if the rule was the same as the NCAA rule. They could just count the defense and then count the backs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

In 5-man, the wings (LJ primary, HL if he gets to it) are counting the defense with the BJ and are then getting the offensive count from the R/U, then counting the backs.

What I've said at least twice now, which hasn't gotten through cause someone doesn't ever want to hear, is if the rule was changed there's be no reason for the wings to have to pick up the count of the offense if the rule was the same as the NCAA rule. They could just count the defense and then count the backs.

It is not about willing to hear you, I just do not agree with your position. It is OK Rich, not any sweat off my back. I just do not think the rule is appropriate for HS. If you do that is fine with me. But it is OK that I disagree with what rules should be used at other levels. If they change the rule again no sweat off my back. But something tells me they won't for such a minor issue IMO.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

No, because you should always count the team first. THEN you can look for the number of backs.

It ain't rocket science.

Yes but who is doing the count? Wings are not always doing the same count. Yes it is not rocket science, but if a wing is not doing the count, they are relying on someone else to give them information. At least where I live, the LJ is supposed to count defense. The Umpire and Referee are the main people counting offense. So if you have fewer than 11, the wing does not have to complicate this by worrying about how many are in the backfield compared to how many are actually on the field.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

At least where I live, the LJ is supposed to count defense. The Umpire and Referee are the main people counting offense. So if you have fewer than 11, the wing does not have to complicate this by worrying about how many are in the backfield compared to how many are actually on the field.

You have this completely flipped.

It is faster to count backs than it is number of linemen.

If the rule requires no more than 4 in the backfield, it doesn't matter how many players the offense has.

As it stands now, in Fed, if you want to count backs to determine legality, you need to pick up the count from the R or U. Otherwise you need to count the linemen which isn't all that easy sometimes.

Not to mention the fact that if the offense is lined up with a missing lineman, it's going to be a foul and it's a dumb one. Not a problem in NCAA.

Having called high school under both rules, I'd much rather have the NCAA rule. It would be a simple and pain free change to make.