We need a new signal for IF!

[bigjohn]

Had at least 10 live ball false starts the other night if you listened to the PA guy! Officials kept yelling 5 backs at the sidelines.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Had at least 10 live ball false starts the other night if you listened to the PA guy! Officials kept yelling 5 backs at the sidelines.

Are you saying something about the 5 backs too...or just the PA guy?

Our wings see that we (R/U) have 11 and then count the backs. They only actually count linemen if we signal 10.

Too bad the NFHS doesn't see the wisdom in the NCAA rule -- there's no good reason to penalize 6 on the line when there are 10 on the field.

[JRutledge]

No, we do not need a new signal. That is what the microphone is for. If you need that much communication, get a microphone for the games.

And there is no reason for a rules change either. I like the NF rule.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Rich

Too bad the NFHS doesn't see the wisdom in the NCAA rule -- there's no good reason to penalize 6 on the line when there are 10 on the field.

Agreed. It is easier to officiate too IMO.

That said it is amusing to hear the "false start" on a live ball foul coming from the announcer. One of my first games of the season, somebody on the crew flagged an illegal formation that ended up calling back a score. The announcer called it a false start and a parent started yelling "If it was false start you should have blown your whistle blah blah blah."

One of the coaches for the team that fouled turned around and yelled back at his fan "It wasn't a false start! Now shut up!"

[bigjohn]

Hell after a while I thought they were calling travelling!!!

[CT1]

I agree we need a separate signal. Perhaps it could be the signal given by men to silently describe a voluptuous woman's shape.

[Rich]

On top of that, the "dead ball foul" signal is completely worthless on those presnap fouls -- NCAA has eliminated them and it would be nice to see the NFHS (officially) do the same.

10 on the field for a punt, 6 on the line.

10 on the field anytime, 6 on the line.

I can't imagine a single reason why this should be a formation foul and can't understand why anyone (Rut, care to explain) thinks the rule is "OK as it is."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

One of the coaches for the team that fouled turned around and yelled back at his fan "It wasn't a false start! Now shut up!"

That would have been hard to keep a straight face if I heard that for sure.

Again, problem solved if the Referee is mic'd.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

On top of that, the "dead ball foul" signal is completely worthless on those presnap fouls -- NCAA has eliminated them and it would be nice to see the NFHS (officially) do the same.

10 on the field for a punt, 6 on the line.

10 on the field anytime, 6 on the line.

I can't imagine a single reason why this should be a formation foul and can't understand why anyone (Rut, care to explain) thinks the rule is "OK as it is."

I think this is a solution looking for a problem. I think it makes no difference either way. All rules that work at the higher levels do not need to be changed at the high school level. This is one of those rules IMO that makes no competitive advantage or even common sense to just require 4 in the backfield. All the other time they can have more on the line, but if we have 10 now we have to make sure they have 4 in the backfield. Sorry, that sounds very unnecessary to me. And I work college so this does not bother me at all that the rule is different. Honestly I do not get why NCAA felt the need to change in the first place. But then again I am almost never a short wing so this is not something I have to worry about most of the time if ever. I would much rather worry about getting more official on the field and covering more things than worrying about a rule that does not make you better because you have 4 in the backfield with only 10 or fewer on the field.

Again, just an opinion. It does not have to be right. But I get a little tired of always trying to change a high school rule because college or pro has that rule.

I do have a question about this rule overall. Does NFL have this rule in place?

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think this is a solution looking for a problem. I think it makes no difference either way. All rules that work at the higher levels do not need to be changed at the high school level. This is one of those rules IMO that makes no competitive advantage or even common sense to just require 4 in the backfield. All the other time they can have more on the line, but if we have 10 now we have to make sure they have 4 in the backfield. Sorry, that sounds very unnecessary to me. And I work college so this does not bother me at all that the rule is different. Honestly I do not get why NCAA felt the need to change in the first place. But then again I am almost never a short wing so this is not something I have to worry about most of the time if ever. I would much rather worry about getting more official on the field and covering more things than worrying about a rule that does not make you better because you have 4 in the backfield with only 10 or fewer on the field.

Again, just an opinion. It does not have to be right. But I get a little tired of always trying to change a high school rule because college or pro has that rule.

I do have a question about this rule overall. Does NFL have this rule in place?

Peace

It is easier to count backs than to count linemen. Much easier in college.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

It is easier to count backs than to count linemen. Much easier in college.

OK, but still trying to figure out why creates a competitive advantage. Something that only makes it easier for us to me is not a good reason for a rules change. Also in college you have many more things to consider as well.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK, but still trying to figure out why creates a competitive advantage. Something that only makes it easier for us to me is not a good reason for a rules change. Also in college you have many more things to consider as well.

Peace

My point is that it doesn't create a competitive advantage in HS to have 10 on the field and 6 on the line, so it *shouldn't be a foul.*

[CT1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also in college you have many more things to consider as well.

Such as?

[Robert Goodman]

Canadian football had that provision for if team A was playing short long before NCAA had it, and even before I saw the Canadian rule I thought that's how it should be. Somebody a long time ago conceived it as a minimum on the line instead of a maximum in the backfield, when it's clear the latter was the effect they wanted.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

Such as?

Low blocks in many areas of the line, not just a confined area as small as the FBZ, changes for a player that goes in motion as well.

Peace