What would you do?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by OKREF

First. White 30 did not have the ball. This was a missed shot by yellow, this play happened in the backcourt at the free throw line.

This is what I did. Gave yellow 22 a technical foul for a non sporting act. Had he actually mad contact and tripped him up, I was going with a flagrant foul.

If a defender runs at a 3 point shooter and ducks his head towards his knees as he goes by, would you assess a technical foul?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If a defender runs at a 3 point shooter and ducks his head towards his knees as he goes by, would you assess a technical foul?

Maybe, if I felt it was a deliberate, non basketball act.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Maybe, if I felt it was a deliberate, non basketball act.

Lol. I've never seen a player accidentally do this.

[BryanV21]

This might be a "had to be there" situation, because I'm leaving this alone.

Some here make it sound like it was a fighting act (the comparison to a missed punch), while it initially sounded to me like a possible intentional foul if contact was made. Unless, like I said, the grab was a fighting act in which I've got a flagrant tech w/ ejection.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

This might be a "had to be there" situation, because I'm leaving this alone.

Some here make it sound like it was a fighting act (the comparison to a missed punch), while it initially sounded to me like a possible intentional foul if contact was made. Unless, like I said, the grab was a fighting act in which I've got a flagrant tech w/ ejection.

Has nothing to do with fighting.
I made the point that the observing official needs to make the decision on flagrant or not based upon the act itself, not whether contact is made with the opponent.
If you believe that a deliberate trip is only intentional, then that's fine.

Lastly, fighting involving contact during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... fighting involving contact during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul.

Just to confirm. If a punch is thrown, and doesn't connect, then there's no contact? Right? So, if it was during a live ball, then it would be a technical foul? Right?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Just to confirm. If a punch is thrown, and doesn't connect, then there's no contact? Right? So, if it was during a live ball, then it would be a technical foul? Right?

No, it would be a flagrant personal because you don't have to connect with the other person to be charged with fighting.

NF 4-18

ART. 1
An attempt to strike, punch or kick by using a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.

ART. 2
An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act that causes a person to retaliate by fighting.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Has nothing to do with fighting.
I made the point that the observing official needs to make the decision on flagrant or not based upon the act itself, not whether contact is made with the opponent.
If you believe that a deliberate trip is only intentional, then that's fine.

Lastly, fighting involving contact during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul.

The reason I brought up the "fighting act" thing is that grabbing an opponent is not necessarily grounds for an ejection. There have been plenty of times somebody grabs an opponent to prevent them from getting open for a pass, or to stop the clock by fouling at the end of a game. Those instances may be grounds for an intentional foul, but rarely for an ejection. And that's what I'm saying.

I would have had to be there to see the intent behind one player trying to grab the other. Did he do it to stop the player from advancing? Did he do it to try and hurt the other player? Those aren't irrelevant questions.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Lol. I've never seen a player accidentally do this.

Are you referring to the OP play or the play you suggested?