Throw-In Situation (NCAA)

[APG]

With both the men's and the women's rules proposals including not awarding a new 10 second count in certain situations, how would you rule this situations (NCAA rules)

A1 is dribbling the ball in the backcourt. A1 passes to A2, but B1 deflects the ball OOB. The new throw-in spot is located near the division line but in the backcourt (yes, the thrower-in doesn't have a location per se but for this scenario, let's say the player is in the "backcourt") The shot clock at this point shows 21 (women)/26 (men). A1 is the thrower in for the throw-in and throws the ball toward the front court. A2 jumps from his/her frontcourt, catches the ball the ball while airborne, then lands in the backcourt.

What do you deem to the correct interpretation on this play?

[Nevadaref]

I would give team A ten seconds from when A2 lands to return the ball to the frontcourt as the ball achieved frontcourt status on the catch and there is no backcourt violation due to the throw-in exception.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would give team A ten seconds from when A2 lands to return the ball to the frontcourt as the ball achieved frontcourt status on the catch and there is no backcourt violation due to the throw-in exception.

Does not the exception effectively cause a "neutral or undefined" status regarding the ball location, and therefore the subsequent landing in the backcourt by A2, while in possession of the ball, cause the ball to be in the backcourt and the 10-second count to continue?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Does not the exception effectively cause a "neutral or undefined" status regarding the ball location,

No.

A ball that is touching a player in the air has the location of the player when the player last touched the court.

[Raymond]

There will now be throw-in plays where coaches tell their players to jump from the FC to the BC while catching the throw-in.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There will now be throw-in plays where coaches tell their players to jump from the FC to the BC while catching the throw-in.

While I agree with the conclusions being drawn here, I think it is safe to say that the intent of the change would not be to restart the count at 0 in this sort of play.

I could see either an interpretation or even a rule update to say that a player who catches the ball in the air on a throwin does not give the ball frontcourt/backcourt status until they land. That would solve this issue as well as a number of other issues.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No.

A ball that is touching a player in the air has the location of the player when the player last touched the court.

The NCAAM definition of ball location for airborne players--4-23-2 specifically excludes the throw in. says "(except during a throw in)". Somewhere else there is a case play or it was a test answer saying that the airborne player has "no status" when he first to touch it from throw in.

[crosscountry55]

Now I know that APG was the moderator who was also a camper at York last weekend.

[BigCat]

To answer the original question. It is a 10 second violation. (if touched at 26 on a 35 second clock it will go to 25 with no FC status. count continues if touched at 26 on a 30 clock)

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Now I know that APG was the moderator who was also a camper at York last weekend.

There are a lot of people on this forum that heard Jon Levinson speak at York, apparently.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by BigCat

To answer the original question. It is a shot clock violation.

Shot clock violation? I think you meant backcourt violation, which is incorrect. Bob's answer is correct. The ball gains front court status when touched by the player in the air that last contacted the ground in the front court. The exception allows that player to land in the backcourt without a violation being called.

No violation. Start a new, visible, 10 second count.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

Shot clock violation? I think you meant backcourt violation, which is incorrect. Bob's answer is correct. The ball gains front court status when touched by the player in the air that last contacted the ground in the front court. The exception allows that player to land in the backcourt without a violation being called.

No violation. Start a new, visible, 10 second count.

I meant to say 10 second violation…and i was thinking on the 35 second clock. look at 4-23-2. it states airborne player status is where last in contact with floor "(except during throw in)" i believe last years test had an answer and explanation saying also that the airborne player, during throw in, has "no status." this goes along with 4-23-2. on a 30 second clock i believe count continues. on the 35 second clock it is a violation since player touching it had no status. ball did not gain FC status before clock went to 25. my two cents.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The NCAAM definition of ball location for airborne players--4-23-2 specifically excludes the throw in. says "(except during a throw in)". Somewhere else there is a case play or it was a test answer saying that the airborne player has "no status" when he first to touch it from throw in.

Yes, for the player (although I had forgotten this part when I made my statement).

But, for the ball:

a. A ball that is in contact with a player or with the playing court shall be in
the back court when either the ball or the player (either player when the
ball is touching more than one) is touching the back court. It shall be in the
front court when neither the ball nor the player is touching the back court.

Since the neither the player nor the ball is touching the backcourt, the ball must be in the front court. ??

I agree with Camron that an interp / change is needed.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, for the player (although I had forgotten this part when I made my statement).

But, for the ball:

a. A ball that is in contact with a player or with the playing court shall be in
the back court when either the ball or the player (either player when the
ball is touching more than one) is touching the back court. It shall be in the
front court when neither the ball nor the player is touching the back court.

Since the neither the player nor the ball is touching the backcourt, the ball must be in the front court. ??

I agree with Camron that an interp / change is needed.

clarification would be helpful. i do think to determine status when ball in air and player in air you have to look at airborne player location rule. i dont think rule above applies. that deals with thrown passes etc that strike the court or players holding ball near division line. lift a foot etc...imo

[Matt S.]

In the women's book, rule 9-13-10 will have to be clarified. Right now, a player who leaps from the front court and catches a throw in with both feet off the court can land on either side of the division line; my 'common sense' interpretation would be to assume that the ball never achieved front court status in this scenario, but yes, some clarification will be necessary.