Throw-In Situation (NCAA)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The NCAAM definition of ball location for airborne players--4-23-2 specifically excludes the throw in. says "(except during a throw in)". Somewhere else there is a case play or it was a test answer saying that the airborne player has "no status" when he first to touch it from throw in.

Yes, for the player (although I had forgotten this part when I made my statement).

But, for the ball:

a. A ball that is in contact with a player or with the playing court shall be in
the back court when either the ball or the player (either player when the
ball is touching more than one) is touching the back court. It shall be in the
front court when neither the ball nor the player is touching the back court.

Since the neither the player nor the ball is touching the backcourt, the ball must be in the front court. ??

I agree with Camron that an interp / change is needed.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, for the player (although I had forgotten this part when I made my statement).

But, for the ball:

a. A ball that is in contact with a player or with the playing court shall be in
the back court when either the ball or the player (either player when the
ball is touching more than one) is touching the back court. It shall be in the
front court when neither the ball nor the player is touching the back court.

Since the neither the player nor the ball is touching the backcourt, the ball must be in the front court. ??

I agree with Camron that an interp / change is needed.

clarification would be helpful. i do think to determine status when ball in air and player in air you have to look at airborne player location rule. i dont think rule above applies. that deals with thrown passes etc that strike the court or players holding ball near division line. lift a foot etc...imo

[Matt S.]

In the women's book, rule 9-13-10 will have to be clarified. Right now, a player who leaps from the front court and catches a throw in with both feet off the court can land on either side of the division line; my 'common sense' interpretation would be to assume that the ball never achieved front court status in this scenario, but yes, some clarification will be necessary.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

In the women's book, rule 9-13-10 will have to be clarified. Right now, a player who leaps from the front court and catches a throw in with both feet off the court can land on either side of the division line; my 'common sense' interpretation would be to assume that the ball never achieved front court status in this scenario, but yes, some clarification will be necessary.

Why would you assume that?
Why not accept that the ball achieves frontcourt status on the catch and then returns to the backcourt on the landing, but due to the throw-in exception the team does not commit a violation?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why would you assume that?
Why not accept that the ball achieves frontcourt status on the catch and then returns to the backcourt on the landing, but due to the throw-in exception the team does not commit a violation?

I know you are asking Matt….but….I would assume what you say but for the wording of 4-23-2. It discusses player location just as we all know it---player located where last in contact with court. ball location when have airborne player is last location of the player. I agree with you on everything accept throw in. 4-23-2 says (except during throw in). That language has to mean something..?

They may clarify but you could argue from that language that when I touch the ball in the air during throw in i have no status and thus the ball has no status….until I land. So clock starts on touching and count continues…

BTW-good to be back...

[Matt S.]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I know you are asking Matt….but….I would assume what you say but for the wording of 4-23-2. It discusses player location just as we all know it---player located where last in contact with court. ball location when have airborne player is last location of the player. I agree with you on everything accept throw in. 4-23-2 says (except during throw in). That language has to mean something..?

They may clarify but you could argue from that language that when I touch the ball in the air during throw in i have no status and thus the ball has no status….until I land. So clock starts on touching and count continues…

BTW-good to be back...

Exactly what BigCat said. The intent of the rule change is likely to both reward good defense and make the game more exciting. As with any rule change, all loopholes must be closed...I don't think the committee is looking to create situations where coaches can try to circumvent the true intent of the rule.

[bballrules]

I wondered how long it would take for this conversation to take place. And, as I stated at York, there will be a conversation with the men concerning this. Nowhere was it ever stated that the women's committee would be doing anything with this. And I did present the play for discussion and what MAY be the correct answer.

We know that the player who catches the throw-in may land in either the backcourt or frontcourt. NFHS goes so far as to say that this player has no status relative to frontcourt or backcourt status if that player (and only that player) returns to the floor possessing the ball (NFHS 2014-15 Point of Emphasis, page 69). The NCAA books do not specifically make this statement. 9-13.10 does not state that this player does or does not have any status.

Just sit tight...

But do look at 4-23.2

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bballrules

I wondered how long it would take for this conversation to take place. And, as I stated at York, there will be a conversation with the men concerning this. Nowhere was it ever stated that the women's committee would be doing anything with this. And I did present the play for discussion and what MAY be the correct answer.

We know that the player who catches the throw-in may land in either the backcourt or frontcourt. NFHS goes so far as to say that this player has no status relative to frontcourt or backcourt status if that player (and only that player) returns to the floor possessing the ball (NFHS 2014-15 Point of Emphasis, page 69). The NCAA books do not specifically make this statement. 9-13.10 does not state that this player does or does not have any status.

Just sit tight...

But do look at 4-23.2

Your comment that the airborne player receiving the throw-in pass has no status relative to frontcourt/backcourt is not correct under NFHS rules. That phrase in the POE is also wrong. Unfortunately, different people author the rules and POEs over time and they sometimes don't fully understand what has been written previously.

I provided the correct understanding in post #17.