Act of Shooting

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Did a men's league game last month where a player mouthed off to me when the opposing team was starting to fast break. I waited about 5 seconds until the other team scored, then called the tech. Two points for the layup, two shots, and the ball. Boom.

You unfairly excessively punished this act. The withheld whistle is only for bench personnel and coaches, not players.

10.4.1 SITUATION F: A1 is driving toward the basket for an apparent goal when the official, while trailing the play advancing in the direction in which the ball is being advanced, is cursed by the head coach or bench personnel of Team B. How should the official handle this situation? RULING: The official shall withhold blow- ing the whistle until A1 has either made or missed the shot. The official shall then sound the whistle and assess the Team B head coach or bench personnel with a technical foul. If the official judges the act to be flagrant, the offender shall be ejected. If A’s coach or bench personnel was the offender, the whistle shall be sounded immediately when the unsporting act occurs. (10-4-1a)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You unfairly excessively punished this act. The withheld whistle is only for bench personnel and coaches, not players.

10.4.1 SITUATION F: A1 is driving toward the basket for an apparent goal when the official, while trailing the play advancing in the direction in which the ball is being advanced, is cursed by the head coach or bench personnel of Team B. How should the official handle this situation? RULING: The official shall withhold blow- ing the whistle until A1 has either made or missed the shot. The official shall then sound the whistle and assess the Team B head coach or bench personnel with a technical foul. If the official judges the act to be flagrant, the offender shall be ejected. If A’s coach or bench personnel was the offender, the whistle shall be sounded immediately when the unsporting act occurs. (10-4-1a)

That case does not necessarily support your conclusion.

It gives an example of how to handle a situation where the offense is committed by a coach or bench personnel. However, it does not preclude handling players in the same manner. It is silent on that point. It could even be interpreted to be the opposite of your conclusion in the name of consistency.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That case does not necessarily support your conclusion.

It gives an example of how to handle a situation where the offense is committed by a coach or bench personnel. However, it does not preclude handling players in the same manner. It is silent on that point. It could even be interpreted to be the opposite of your conclusion in the name of consistency.

The following play ruling is very clear and the one that I posted above is the only specific exception of which I am aware.

6.7 SITUATION C: Under what circumstances does the ball remain live when a foul occurs just prior to the ball being in flight during a try or tap? RULING: The ball would ordinarily become dead at once, but it remains live if the foul is by the defense, and this foul occurs after A1 has started the try or tap for goal and time does not expire before the ball is in flight. The foul by the defense may be either personal or technical and the exception to the rule applies to field goal tries and taps and free-throw tries. (4-11; 4-41-1)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The following play ruling is very clear and the one that I posted above is the only specific exception of which I am aware.

6.7 SITUATION C: Under what circumstances does the ball remain live when a foul occurs just prior to the ball being in flight during a try or tap? RULING: The ball would ordinarily become dead at once, but it remains live if the foul is by the defense, and this foul occurs after A1 has started the try or tap for goal and time does not expire before the ball is in flight. The foul by the defense may be either personal or technical and the exception to the rule applies to field goal tries and taps and free-throw tries. (4-11; 4-41-1)

Nowhere does this specify a player: the fact that it just says "defense" implies, to many of us, that it would apply to a coach from the defensive team as well.

It's certainly arguable, but it's far from "clear."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

Nowhere does this specify a player: the fact that it just says "defense" implies, to many of us, that it would apply to a coach from the defensive team as well.

It's certainly arguable, but it's far from "clear."

Uh, that was my point. You have quoted the wrong case play. The continuous motion rule applies to all defensive fouls whether personal or technical. That ruling clearly states that the ball becomes dead unless the act of shooting has already begun.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Uh, that was my point. You have quoted the wrong case play. The continuous motion rule applies to all defensive fouls whether personal or technical. That ruling clear states that the ball becomes dead unless the act of shooting has already begun.

Yet, why would there be a case that applies to anyone which says to wait until after the shot when there is an obvious scoring opportunity for the other team? Why do we penalize a team more harshly for an infraction by bench personnel than a player who commits the same infraction?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Uh, that was my point. You have quoted the wrong case play. The continuous motion rule applies to all defensive fouls whether personal or technical. That ruling clearly states that the ball becomes dead unless the act of shooting has already begun.

Yeah, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying the continuous motion exception only applied on a foul committed by a player, and not a technical committed by someone on the bench.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

Yeah, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying the continuous motion exception only applied on a foul committed by a player, and not a technical committed by someone on the bench.

Actually, that is true too.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You unfairly excessively punished this act.

I know, that's why I did it.

[jeremy341a]

If he called it earlier would he have been providing the defense with an advantage not intended by rule?

[Rich1]

I agree with Nevada on this one. If A1 is dribbling down the court then I blow the whistle when it happens. If A1 is very close to beginning a shooting motion I would delay. This applies to on court players only. I will always delay and see the play through if its from the bench.

And I don't agrse that you are giving the defense an advantage not intended by rule because they get two shots and the ball to make up for it. Advantage offense.