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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 08:18am
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New Youth Sports Law in Florida

Bill bans youth coaches who get tossed from game

Seems vague and subjective. Interesting to see if it passes and/or ever gets enforced.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 08:43am
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Terrible rule. Officials will be under pressure to keep people that need to go in games and there will be worse behavior in the long run.


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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 08:45am
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It is great to see that all the trivial problems (infrastructure, education, poverty, economy, etc.) in Florida have been resolved and they can get to the really important issues like youth rec league coaches.

I understand that they can probably handle more than one piece of legislation at a time, but how much money is being spent on this?

---Getting off soap box---
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 08:59am
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Originally Posted by BatteryPowered View Post
It is great to see that all the trivial problems (infrastructure, education, poverty, economy, etc.) in Florida have been resolved and they can get to the really important issues like youth rec league coaches.

I understand that they can probably handle more than one piece of legislation at a time, but how much money is being spent on this?

---Getting off soap box---
Florida has had quite of few incidents of coaches/players attacking officials. I have no problem with them addressing legislation to clean up that environment.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 09:16am
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Florida has had quite of few incidents of coaches/players attacking officials. I have no problem with them addressing legislation to clean up that environment.
So what you are saying is that those that run the leagues are not capable or lack to coconuts to ban coaches on their own who create problems and that a law, which will either be next to impossible to enforce or require sports officials (many of whom don't care enough to learn the rules and proper mechanics) file a notice with a governmental entity will fix the problem.

Just curious, assuming a notice is actually sent and a coach is banned...exactly who is going to enforce the ban? The same league that didn't do anything from the beginning? Law enforcement? Many of these coaches coach in multiple leagues...are they banned from all of them?
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 09:21am
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Florida has had quite of few incidents of coaches/players attacking officials. I have no problem with them addressing legislation to clean up that environment.
I worked in a state once where a HS head coach ejection resulted in forfeit.

Nobody ever got ejected. If someone actually did, there'd be this huge rigamarole about "taking the game from the kids" and other crap like that.

Baseball's a different beast -- I've only had 2 coach ejections in 28 years in basketball (none since 1995) and none in football, but it's not unusual to have one in a season of HS baseball. When you allow coaches to work on the field and then come onto the field and argue calls, it leads to situations where the only practical recourse is making them go sit on the bus.

Laws like this tie the hands of the official. Nobody wants to see a coach lose their job over a single ejection.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 09:35am
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I worked in a state once where a HS head coach ejection resulted in forfeit.

Nobody ever got ejected. If someone actually did, there'd be this huge rigamarole about "taking the game from the kids" and other crap like that.

Baseball's a different beast -- I've only had 2 coach ejections in 28 years in basketball (none since 1995) and none in football, but it's not unusual to have one in a season of HS baseball. When you allow coaches to work on the field and then come onto the field and argue calls, it leads to situations where the only practical recourse is making them go sit on the bus.

Laws like this tie the hands of the official. Nobody wants to see a coach lose their job over a single ejection.
The law would apply only for 12 and under sports leagues, so job security wouldn't really be an issue. It would only take a couple of officials with nutz to get the message across.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 09:55am
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The law would apply only for 12 and under sports leagues, so job security wouldn't really be an issue. It would only take a couple of officials with nutz to get the message across.
And how many of those officials would effectively be blackballed from working those leagues / games?

When I moved to Wisconsin, I looked for some youth football to work. Found what I thought was a good program. Coaches on the field during play at the younger levels. After 3 weeks of dealing with coaches who would try to get in your face and argue in the middle of the field, the league organizer said they're hiring other people going forward "because the coaches don't like that you won't let them yell at you on the field."
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 09:58am
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And how many of those officials would effectively be blackballed from working those leagues / games?
I can't speculate on that. But I would assume that the leagues would not do such unless those administrators like chaos in their leagues.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 10:21am
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I can't speculate on that. But I would assume that the leagues would not do such unless those administrators like chaos in their leagues.
Just my opinion, but I think that is a bad assumption.

Let's be honest, leagues are a source of revenue for an organization. You really think a business is going to keep using a particular vendor (official) and ignore the outrage of their customer (parents) when an equally...if not more...qualified vendor is available?

I ask because the first time a coach and official are having a particularly bad day at the same time and a coach is tossed and suspended I can see the brown stuff hitting the fan. Parents will be screaming because Little Johnny cannot be coached by their real coach. I mean, come on...everyone can see that he has the skills and ability to be the next King James.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 10:36am
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Terrible rule. Officials will be under pressure to keep people that need to go in games and there will be worse behavior in the long run.


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Agreed. It's bad on a number of levels. May be well intentioned but really, really bad execution. Hopefully someone with some degree of intelligence in the FL legislature (HA!) will see the folly of trying to enforce (and the real-life consequences this is going to ceate) and defeat this thing before it ever comes to a vote.

And IMHO...a textbook example of government overreach.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 10:41am
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I don't think this is a matter for government. It's not about safety or punishment for violating the health or rights of others, like increased penalties on assaults. This should be under the authority of the leagues, not the state.

Plus, this particular bill is completely toothless and likely meaningless in practical effect. It does indeed ban an ejected coach for the season. However, it also says that each league must set up a procedure of 'due process' to allow an ejection to be appealed, which if successful would result in immediate reinstatement. There is no definition of that due process or any penalties for violation or anything. Waste of time.

So if a league is diligent and serious about sportsmanship, they likely don't need this blunt instrument. And if they're not, they'll just have a kangaroo court to rubber stamp appeals and achieve nothing in reality.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bil...ext/Filed/HTML
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 10:43am
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I can't speculate on that. But I would assume that the leagues would not do such unless those administrators like chaos in their leagues.
You're kidding, right? There are stories all the times of leagues and tournaments who get rid of officials or simply stop using them because the officials TCB and don't bend over backwards to please the "customer." I posted one above. That's not the only time that's happened to me in 28 years, either.

Difference between me and other officials is that I don't really care -- I don't really need to work stuff like this and do it mainly to tune up for camps or for some pocket money to take on vacations. I'll TCB. Those that use this money to pay the bills quickly learn to get walked on so they keep getting the work.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 11:27am
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The law would apply only for 12 and under sports leagues, so job security wouldn't really be an issue. It would only take a couple of officials with nutz to get the message across.
I haven't umpired youth baseball in several years - and haven't done any baseball for a few years now - but I would volunteer to fly myself to Florida and take care of business. Tell me where to sign up.
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Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 11:30am
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Originally Posted by scrounge View Post
I don't think this is a matter for government. It's not about safety or punishment for violating the health or rights of others, like increased penalties on assaults. This should be under the authority of the leagues, not the state.

Plus, this particular bill is completely toothless and likely meaningless in practical effect. It does indeed ban an ejected coach for the season. However, it also says that each league must set up a procedure of 'due process' to allow an ejection to be appealed, which if successful would result in immediate reinstatement. There is no definition of that due process or any penalties for violation or anything. Waste of time.

So if a league is diligent and serious about sportsmanship, they likely don't need this blunt instrument. And if they're not, they'll just have a kangaroo court to rubber stamp appeals and achieve nothing in reality.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bil...ext/Filed/HTML
I agree with this. I also do not work any youth events anymore. I realize not everyone can do that, but even when I did work youth games I only worked for organizations that supported officials. Sometimes we lose sight of the fact we are independent contractors.
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