CA Open Championship (Boys)

[Welpe]

Sometimes making the right, correct call takes a level of fortitude that many do not have. Simple as that.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Sometimes making the right, correct call takes a level of fortitude that many do not have. Simple as that.

And that is the bottom line here...because of idiots on chat boards and fan-boy pages and (sadly) referee forums who go ballistic about calls like this and the T on the dunk, we have officials who either 1) do not have the guts to take any heat that might come from making a tough call, or 2) think they know best what is "good for the game" and choose not to call things.

Both of which make the job all that much harder for those of us who are trying to do it right.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And that is the bottom line here...because of idiots on chat boards and fan-boy pages and (sadly) referee forums who go ballistic about calls like this and the T on the dunk, we have officials who either 1) do not have the guts to take any heat that might come from making a tough call, or 2) think they know best what is "good for the game" and choose not to call things.

Both of which make the job all that much harder for those of us who are trying to do it right.

But it was such a good game.

[mutantducky]

And sometimes we have to realize there are bigger issues at stake rather than simply following the rules. From the very beginning when I started officiating to this season, working a varsity game with two older refs who told me to get on the same page as them(we did, in the second half and it ran smooth)
that you don't always go by the book. I was officiating closer to the letter of the rule while they were letting the players dilate play and calling fouls when they should. As they told me, ref according to the level of play. The game was between two good varsity teams that were well-coached and stricter officiating was not needed. There are fouls that need to be let go. There are times when you can have a play-on. There are hand-checks, and other touch fouls that could be called and often should be called, but the good refs are going to know when to pass on them if they are not impacting play.
It would have been a travesty had the game ended on a T with .8 seconds to go. Yes, it could have very well been the case had there been an extra second or two, but as ref I'm not going to end the game like that if the situation calls for it. Perhaps the players and the refs got lucky there wasn't more time on the clock, but I'm just very glad the game ended the way it did, and the fans and players got to be involved in a great championship game. That's the end story. Not the T issue or the timeout.

[MathReferee]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

And sometimes we have to realize there are bigger issues at stake rather than simply following the rules. From the very beginning when I started officiating to this season, working a varsity game with two older refs who told me to get on the same page as them(we did, in the second half and it ran smooth)
that you don't always go by the book. I was officiating closer to the letter of the rule while they were letting the players dilate play and calling fouls when they should. As they told me, ref according to the level of play. The game was between two good varsity teams that were well-coached and stricter officiating was not needed. There are fouls that need to be let go. There are times when you can have a play-on. There are hand-checks, and other touch fouls that could be called and often should be called, but the good refs are going to know when to pass on them if they are not impacting play.
It would have been a travesty had the game ended on a T with .8 seconds to go. Yes, it could have very well been the case had there been an extra second or two, but as ref I'm not going to end the game like that if the situation calls for it. Perhaps the players and the refs got lucky there wasn't more time on the clock, but I'm just very glad the game ended the way it did, and the fans and players got to be involved in a great championship game. That's the end story. Not the T issue or the timeout.

Wow. Having a player request a TO when their team does not have any is what is the travesty. Your job is to enforce the rules. If you do not want to enforce them, then stop officiating until you can get the rules committee to edit the rule to your liking. It only makes it more difficult on the crew behind you when you choose which rules to enforce.

I see your point on this example on letting the players [dictate] play, but that is a completely different scenario than ignoring a TO request just because you know they do not have any TO's. One rule requires us to use judgement, while the other does not.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

...they were letting the players dilate play

Well, that might be part of your problem.


All the stuff you mentioned in that post, otherwise, is about judgement on contact and how tight or loose to call it based on advantage gained/lost. That is all good, but it has absolutely nothing to do with this case. It wasn't like he started to make the time out signal and stopped, realizing they didn't have any. He emphatically requested it and continued to request it. For it to not be called (if seen) is pathetic.

It may have been a travesty, but it wouldn't have been on any of the officials....it would be on the player making the boneheaded timeout request.

[mutantducky]

(dictate)
maybe we have dilated enough on this topic.

I didn't know there are two definitions for dilate.

[Referee24.7]

Bottom line is the clip CLEARLY shows the player calling timeout and although I don't know what was discussed at the end of game when they got together to talk, but can make an educated guess if it was about the timeout (you saw white's coach pleading his case that they tried to call timeout). . .

That's the everlasting problem with us as stripes - there are those who feel their philosophies and what they feel to be right take precedent over what the rules dictate and require us to do. . .

[jpgc99]

This horse is about dead, but I want to make sure the crew doesn't get stuck underneath the horse at it falls. There are a few things in the video that got brushed aside in the unfortunate path the thread took. First, to be clear: If a timeout was request prior to time expiring, the officials must absolutely enforce the rules.

I believe the new L recognized the request and was going to penalize the team appropriately. Watch his actions. He has his hand raised and is stopping the clock around the .4 mark. The C emphatically comes in waving off the shot, but he goes immediately to the new T. Watch the game clock from the endline view. It does in fact pause at .8.

I would venture to guess that during the discussion the C said he had information that the clock stopped inappropriately. The question then becomes whether or not the time out request occurred before time expired or after. Although video clearly shows that the request came before time expired, I do not think it unreasonable to believe the official did not see the request until very near the horn sounding. With the additional information - and definite knowledge - that the clock stopped at .8, I think they decided to rule that the request came after the expiration of time.

Video proves this to be wrong, but I don't think the crew deserves to be lumped into the camp that believes this request should be ignored. The clock operator threw a wrench into the situation. The C had excellent clock awareness; the T was probably too tunnel visioned, but I do think he eventually recognized the time out request and was going to respond in accordance to the rule. It was just the perfect storm that led to a miss. But the crew shouldn't be penalized for mutant's activist take on the rules.