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-   -   Cincinnati vs Kentucky Contact Dead Ball Technical Foul (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99577-cincinnati-vs-kentucky-contact-dead-ball-technical-foul-video.html)

Raymond Tue Mar 24, 2015 02:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 959058)
I believe that you are confused. Ellis didn't get T'd for anything during the game. I have stated that I would not have T'd him either. I would continue to observe him though in case his antics cross the threshold for an unsporting technical foul. You inquired if I would T him for the exact same thing again later in the game. The answer is no. His action is below the level of a technical foul no matter how many times he does it. He simply has my attention for the rest of the game so that I don't miss something that he does which does warrant a T.

Apparently, you would have T'd Ellis during this contest. I don't agree with your assessment.
Never said Ellis got T'd in this game. But he got a FF2 in the game prior, so he's already should be on the crew's radar.

After Lyles gets fouled on the first play, Ellis bumps him quite unnecessarily, then Ellis slaps his hand away. Then on the next play Ellis and Harrison make it a point to bump into each other. Yes, I would put a T on Ellis when Harrison got T'd. I'm not spending all game telling players to "knock it off".

AremRed Tue Mar 24, 2015 02:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 959064)
Never said Ellis got T'd in this game. But he got a FF2 in the game prior, so he's already should be on the crew's radar.

After Lyles gets fouled on the first play, Ellis bumps him quite unnecessarily, then Ellis slaps his hand away. Then on the next play Ellis and Harrison make it a point to bump into each other. Yes, I would put a T on Ellis when Harrison got T'd. I'm not spending all game telling players to "knock it off".
I would have whacked Ellis for the initial BS with Lyles. What would you have done?

Raymond Tue Mar 24, 2015 02:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 959066)
I would have whacked Ellis for the initial BS with Lyles. What would you have done?
I definitely would have strongly considered it.

I wish the Lead hadn't been so quick to leave the scene of that first foul.

jpgc99 Tue Mar 24, 2015 03:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 959071)
I definitely would have strongly considered it.

I wish the Lead hadn't been so quick to leave the scene of that first foul.
I am leaning towards T on the first play. If that's called we avoid the second play altogether. In isolation, the second play is probably nothing. But in context of the game, I would probably go with a double T as both players escalated the situation.

I really don't like the reaction of Ellis after the T is called. That borders on unsporting behavior in my opinion.

Nevadaref Tue Mar 24, 2015 03:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 959066)
I would have whacked Ellis for the initial BS with Lyles. What would you have done?
In my opinion, Lyles is the only player who does something warranting a technical foul.

Raymond Tue Mar 24, 2015 03:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 959077)
In my opinion, Lyles is the only player who does something warranting a technical foul.
I'm assuming for knocking Ellis arm down?

jpgc99 Tue Mar 24, 2015 04:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 959077)
In my opinion, Lyles is the only player who does something warranting a technical foul.
Which of his actions would you deem a FF1 during a live ball?

dahoopref Tue Mar 24, 2015 07:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 959044)
Following the first personal foul the Kentucky player took a swipe at the Cinci player. The Cinci player was no angel, but that action by the Kentucky player meets the definition of a Class A unsporting technical foul. I would penalize him right then. I don't see the actions of anything else in this clip rising to that level. I do not agree with the technical foul that was eventually assessed to the Kentucky player following the second personal foul. Ellis of Cinci actually moved to his right to pick off Harrison as he walks by and makes his shoulder bump look worse. I would tell those two to knock it off and keep an eye them for further issues.

Lastly, please compare the language in 10-3-1d with the text of the new 10-3-2i. Curious that one uses "and" and the other "or" when they are basically the same in the rest of the rule. Why the difference for players versus bench personnnel?
FYI, the site committee and John Adams apparently agreed with the official who called the DCTF because he will work the next round. :D

AremRed Tue Mar 24, 2015 07:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 959086)
FYI, the site committee and John Adams apparently agreed with the official who called the DCTF because he will work the next round. :D
I'd be surprised if Ray Natili didn't advance to the next round. This tech isn't controversial like the Ed Cooley one.

Nevadaref Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 959044)
Following the first personal foul the Kentucky player took a swipe at the Cinci player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgc99 (Post 959083)
Which of his actions would you deem a FF1 during a live ball?
What I wrote above.

APG Wed Mar 25, 2015 01:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 959107)
What I wrote above.
None of the actions in this clip would warrant an FF1 during live ball play...the closest action would be Ellis's that he initiated after the whilst blew for the first foul.

Raymond Wed Mar 25, 2015 08:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 959107)
What I wrote above.
So Lyles action would be a FF1/Intentional during a live ball?

I know I wouldn't call it as such.

dahoopref Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 959087)
I'd be surprised if Ray Natili didn't advance to the next round. This tech isn't controversial like the Ed Cooley one.
I don't know about Ray Natili moving on but I do know the official who actually did call the TF is moving on.

so cal lurker Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:24am
Two cents: When the T was called I was surprised. When they showed the replay that was just the contact, I was still surprised. But when they showed the replay so that I noticed he walked 15' to get there to initiate the contact, I changed my mind and thought it was a good call -- it was a calculated move, not a "oh I'm right here" move. YMMV.

AremRed Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 959122)
I don't know about Ray Natili moving on but I do know the official who actually did call the TF is moving on.
Who called it? When I was watching live it looked like Natili ended up being C opposite during the FT administration.


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