NC State vs Villanova (Video 2/2)

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Well hold on, that's not what I implied. I meant there had been several travels either passed on or not seen. For the sake of consistency (which I know you, as a coach, desire), I have to take this into consideration.

If it's the first time I see it or we've made a point of calling it the whole game, than yes, absolutely I have a travel here. And it was a travel; that I'm not denying.

I don't think any good official passeson many, if any, travels he or she sees (or I should say, recognizes as a travel.)

Also BTW, while I was a high school coach for 11 years, I've now been officiating for 8. I haven't posted here much in the last couple years so I imagine many who post now don't know that when I started reading and posting here, I was still coaching.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I'm not sure why BadNewsRef said, "it depends," though I'm sure he had a technical reason. But in essence, what you listed was correct. No re-set if the team in control has the arrow. There's no "change in possession" so it's just as if the ball was deflected out of bounds by the defense.

Depends if the defense, at some point, gained possession of the ball prior to the tie up.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Depends if the defense, at some point, gained possession of the ball prior to the tie up.

The reason I initially assumed it would be a fresh shot clock either way is that a held ball is essentially dual possession, so getting the ball via the arrow would be a fresh possession either way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by hbk314

The reason I initially assumed it would be a fresh shot clock either way is that a held ball is essentially dual possession, so getting the ball via the arrow would be a fresh possession either way.

A.R. 212. Player A1 attempts a try for goal and:
1. The shot-clock horn sounds while the ball is in flight. The ball does not hit the ring or flange and is simultaneously recovered by A2 and B2 for a held ball; or
2. After the try does not hit the ring or flange, it is simultaneously recovered by A2 and B2 for a held ball. The shot-clock horn does not sound.

RULING 1: A shot-clock violation has occurred and the ball is awarded to Team B at a designated spot.

2: Since the shot-clock horn has not sounded, there is no violation. The alternating-possession arrow shall be used with no reset of the shot clock when the alternating-possession arrow favors the
team that shot the ball.(Rule 9-12.4, 9-12.1, 9-12.3 and .4, 6-4.1.a and 2-11.7.i)

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A.R. 212. Player A1 attempts a try for goal and:
1. The shot-clock horn sounds while the ball is in flight. The ball does not hit the ring or flange and is simultaneously recovered by A2 and B2 for a held ball; or
2. After the try does not hit the ring or flange, it is simultaneously recovered by A2 and B2 for a held ball. The shot-clock horn does not sound.

RULING 1: A shot-clock violation has occurred and the ball is awarded to Team B at a designated spot.

2: Since the shot-clock horn has not sounded, there is no violation. The alternating-possession arrow shall be used with no reset of the shot clock when the alternating-possession arrow favors the
team that shot the ball.(Rule 9-12.4, 9-12.1, 9-12.3 and .4, 6-4.1.a and 2-11.7.i)

I'm not disputing that that's the rule. I'm just explaining why it might not be obvious to the casual viewer, and why I asked to begin with.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I'm not disputing that that's the rule. I'm just explaining why it might not be obvious to the casual viewer, and why I asked to begin with.

I'd rather just post the rule than speculate what people may or may not be thinking. Always the best way to settle a rules discussion.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

I don't think any good official passeson many, if any, travels he or she sees (or I should say, recognizes as a travel.)

I have to disagree with this.

There HAS to have been a directive to NCAA officials regarding traveling. There are at least marginal travels on nearly every possession, particularly from players catching the ball going away from their basket. They can damn near do whatever they want to square themselves up.

And we may as well adopt the NBA's "2 step" rule because there are probably 10 plays a game that to me, are clear travels (and replays back me up), that are ignored. They aren't even commented on by most fans/announcers because they're so used to NBA-level moves. Spin moves to the basket, "Euro-steps", tucking the ball, etc. None of it gets called.

I HOPE that this isn't just officials being oblivious to what I consider quite obvious travels.

[APG]

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

I have to disagree with this.

There HAS to have been a directive to NCAA officials regarding traveling. There are at least marginal travels on nearly every possession, particularly from players catching the ball going away from their basket. They can damn near do whatever they want to square themselves up.

And we may as well adopt the NBA's "2 step" rule because there are probably 10 plays a game that to me, are clear travels (and replays back me up), that are ignored. They aren't even commented on by most fans/announcers because they're so used to NBA-level moves. Spin moves to the basket, "Euro-steps", tucking the ball, etc. None of it gets called.

I HOPE that this isn't just officials being oblivious to what I consider quite obvious travels.

I don't know if its a directive or not. BUT I agree that on every possession there is footwork that is well beyond questionable. Particularly on take offs, and a lot of plays in transition.

Now the pace of the game I can see missing at times because you are trying to get angles, uncertain of gather etc. But guys changing pivot feet or lifting their back foot before the ball is out with someone watching that competitive 1 on 1 matchup come on. If footwork is being missed because guys are too worried about watching the contact then by all means get rid of the contact. But don't allow travels to occur because of contact violations are not supposed to be advantage disadvantage.