Utah v Oregon late fouls (Video)

[Nevadaref]

Two tough whistles go against Oregon in the final dozen seconds allowing Utah to tie, yet Oregon hits a long 3 to win it with about a second left.

The fouls to examine:
1. PC call with 12.1 seconds left
2. Handchecking foul with 7.2 remaining.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. PC call with 12.1 seconds left

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2. Handchecking foul with 7.2 remaining.

[hbk314]

As a non-official, I assume the first one was called because the player with the ball appeared to lower his shoulder?

For the second one, that seems really weak, but wasn't that a POE from last year, or am I misunderstanding?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by hbk314

As a non-official, I assume the first one was called because the player with the ball appeared to lower his shoulder?

For the second one, that seems really weak, but wasn't that a POE from last year, or am I misunderstanding?

Despite what some may tell you, lowering the shoulder by itself is not necessarily a foul. However, if that lowered shoulder displaces and legally position defender, it will be an offensive foul. If, instead, the defender were not legal, it would have been a defensive foul despite the shoulder being lowered.

The second one is an example of a defender not being in a legal position. He never obtained "Legal Guarding Position". That is two feet on the floor in the path of the dribbler while also facing the dribbler. Having never obtained that, the defender can't be moving if there is contact. He was moving and it disrupted the dribblers movement....thus it was a foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Despite what some may tell you, lowering the shoulder by itself it not necessarily a foul.

Why does this myth persist among non-officials when one never hears officials, even bad officials, mention this?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Why does this myth persist among non-officials when one never hears officials, even bad officials, mention this?

because so many players make contact by lowering the shoulder.

[ballgame99]

I don't have a problem with either of those calls. Particularly the PC.

[Raymond]

PC foul was easy.

Block was marginal, IMO, but if it was called that way all game I'd have no problem with it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by hbk314

As a non-official, I assume the first one was called because the player with the ball appeared to lower his shoulder?
...

Officials don't make calls because of "lowering a shoulder". He displaced a defender who had LGP.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Why does this myth persist among non-officials when one never hears officials, even bad officials, mention this?

Because we do hear officials, even good officials, use that as the reason for the foul. I've heard it from some that are otherwise very good officials and expect to continue hearing it. :/

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Officials don't make calls because of "lowering a shoulder". He displaced a defender who had LGP.

Is there a point where displacing a defender without LGP can still be a PC foul?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Is there a point where displacing a defender without LGP can still be a PC foul?

Yes. It can occur with a pushoff/clearout using the hands/arms. If the defender is stationary but doesn't have LGP (e.g., never facing) then it can even occur with torso to torso contact. If the defender doesn't have LGP and is moving, then torso to torso contact will a block.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Is there a point where displacing a defender without LGP can still be a PC foul?

In NCAA-Men's, defenders in the RA arc are protected against extended arms, knees, and feet from the offensive players.

[jeremy341a]

Doesn't he establish LGP at 11 seconds into the second video?

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The second one is an example of a defender not being in a legal position. He never obtained "Legal Guarding Position". That is two feet on the floor in the path of the dribbler while also facing the dribbler.

Is the bolded portion an NCAA thing?