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-   -   Utah v Oregon late fouls (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99504-utah-v-oregon-late-fouls-video.html)

Nevadaref Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:56am
Utah v Oregon late fouls (Video)
 
Two tough whistles go against Oregon in the final dozen seconds allowing Utah to tie, yet Oregon hits a long 3 to win it with about a second left.

The fouls to examine:
1. PC call with 12.1 seconds left
2. Handchecking foul with 7.2 remaining.

APG Wed Mar 18, 2015 02:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 957770)
1. PC call with 12.1 seconds left
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P_0h97-57QQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 957770)
2. Handchecking foul with 7.2 remaining.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mUXzKpEVBuQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

hbk314 Wed Mar 18, 2015 02:48am
As a non-official, I assume the first one was called because the player with the ball appeared to lower his shoulder?

For the second one, that seems really weak, but wasn't that a POE from last year, or am I misunderstanding?

Camron Rust Wed Mar 18, 2015 03:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 958012)
As a non-official, I assume the first one was called because the player with the ball appeared to lower his shoulder?

For the second one, that seems really weak, but wasn't that a POE from last year, or am I misunderstanding?
Despite what some may tell you, lowering the shoulder by itself is not necessarily a foul. However, if that lowered shoulder displaces and legally position defender, it will be an offensive foul. If, instead, the defender were not legal, it would have been a defensive foul despite the shoulder being lowered.

The second one is an example of a defender not being in a legal position. He never obtained "Legal Guarding Position". That is two feet on the floor in the path of the dribbler while also facing the dribbler. Having never obtained that, the defender can't be moving if there is contact. He was moving and it disrupted the dribblers movement....thus it was a foul.

BillyMac Wed Mar 18, 2015 06:16am
Lower The Shoulder ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 958014)
Despite what some may tell you, lowering the shoulder by itself it not necessarily a foul.
Why does this myth persist among non-officials when one never hears officials, even bad officials, mention this?

bob jenkins Wed Mar 18, 2015 07:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 958022)
Why does this myth persist among non-officials when one never hears officials, even bad officials, mention this?
because so many players make contact by lowering the shoulder.

ballgame99 Wed Mar 18, 2015 09:28am
I don't have a problem with either of those calls. Particularly the PC.

Raymond Wed Mar 18, 2015 09:42am
PC foul was easy.

Block was marginal, IMO, but if it was called that way all game I'd have no problem with it.

Raymond Wed Mar 18, 2015 09:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 958012)
As a non-official, I assume the first one was called because the player with the ball appeared to lower his shoulder?
...
Officials don't make calls because of "lowering a shoulder". He displaced a defender who had LGP.

Camron Rust Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 958022)
Why does this myth persist among non-officials when one never hears officials, even bad officials, mention this?
Because we do hear officials, even good officials, use that as the reason for the foul. I've heard it from some that are otherwise very good officials and expect to continue hearing it. :/

hbk314 Wed Mar 18, 2015 01:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 958044)
Officials don't make calls because of "lowering a shoulder". He displaced a defender who had LGP.
Is there a point where displacing a defender without LGP can still be a PC foul?

Camron Rust Wed Mar 18, 2015 02:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 958071)
Is there a point where displacing a defender without LGP can still be a PC foul?
Yes. It can occur with a pushoff/clearout using the hands/arms. If the defender is stationary but doesn't have LGP (e.g., never facing) then it can even occur with torso to torso contact. If the defender doesn't have LGP and is moving, then torso to torso contact will a block.

Raymond Wed Mar 18, 2015 02:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 958071)
Is there a point where displacing a defender without LGP can still be a PC foul?
In NCAA-Men's, defenders in the RA arc are protected against extended arms, knees, and feet from the offensive players.

jeremy341a Wed Mar 18, 2015 02:22pm
Doesn't he establish LGP at 11 seconds into the second video?

ODog Wed Mar 18, 2015 03:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 958014)
The second one is an example of a defender not being in a legal position. He never obtained "Legal Guarding Position". That is two feet on the floor in the path of the dribbler while also facing the dribbler.
Is the bolded portion an NCAA thing?


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