Ignore timeout request?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by WDEvol

Seen in a Division I NCAAW game yesterday -

Team B trailing by 10 or so, last minute of 2H. B is out of timeouts. B1 trapped on sideline in front of A's bench, and she calls for timeout. Official says "no, you don't have one." A's bench goes ballistic. Effect of the play was that A's players stopped trapping once B1 tried to call the timeout, ball went into the frontcourt and B2 was fouled on a shot attempt. Was more or less a four-point swing on that play.

I've only worked NFHS rules, but is this something that NCAAW officials are instructed to do? Not grant the timeout request so as to avoid calling a T? It was always my understanding that a team could always request a timeout, but at the expense of a technical foul if they were out.

The play didn't affect the outcome of the game, but this was a VERY veteran Division I official (at least 30+ years) and I was pretty stunned to see it happen.

I've never heard of instructions at any level to ignore a timeout here. I've seen officials advocate doing it that way, but that is always personal philosophy. The reason you don't ignore it is precisely what happened in this play.

[NCAAREF]

My first question would be, did you actually hear the official say "No you don't have one"? How do you know exaclty what he was saying? If you do then my apologies and I agree with the other post. You should grant the time out request. Ther is no philosophy to follow, you grant the time out.

[WDEvol]

Originally Posted by NCAAREF

My first question would be, did you actually hear the official say "No you don't have one"? How do you know exaclty what he was saying? If you do then my apologies and I agree with the other post. You should grant the time out request. Ther is no philosophy to follow, you grant the time out.

I was sitting on the scorer's table and the play happened directly in front of me. I heard the words come out of her mouth, as did Team A's bench and about the first 2 rows of fans behind us.

[WDEvol]

Originally Posted by Adam

I've never heard of instructions at any level to ignore a timeout here. I've seen officials advocate doing it that way, but that is always personal philosophy. The reason you don't ignore it is precisely what happened in this play.

I made the comment after the game that I might do something like this in a rec league game with players 5th-grade age or below, but even at the middle school or high school level, I'd grant the timeout and assess penalties accordingly.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by WDEvol

I made the comment after the game that I might do something like this in a rec league game with players 5th-grade age or below, but even at the middle school or high school level, I'd grant the timeout and assess penalties accordingly.

30+ year officials at that level get away with things the rest of us can't. I'll leave it at that.

[BoomerSooner]

The only time I've ever subscribed to the philosophy of not granting a requested time out was when I called intramural games in college. We used a running clock that could only be stopped with a time out, injury or at the official's discretion. Most teams were smart enough to save their timeouts for late game situations especially if they needed to foul to try to catch up. If you were out of time outs, the time lost waiting for everybody to walk to the other end of the court, line up and then actually shoot the free throws pretty much spelled doom. I recall losing 1-2 minutes per trip to the line if nobody used a time out.

During my freshman year, I estimated that many of the guys out there shot under 50% from the stripe, so by season's end I had concluded that even if the opposing team was smart enough to have their best shooter take the free throws for a technical foul (many teams thought the same guy that was fouled had to shoot), it was still a better proposition to take the time out to stop the clock (NCAA Men's, so POI resumption, but clock stayed stopped). By the time I started calling games during my sophomore year, my strategy had spread and the intramural administrator had caught on to what was causing games to run over the typical hour scheduled for each game and instituted a rule that the clock would only stop while the official was reporting any fouls and/or notifying the coach/captain of the technical foul. Once that aspect of the situation was cleared up, the clock would resume running.

I was so frustrated with that decision that I would only grant a timeout in a "bail-out" situation (trapped in the corner, 5 or 10 second count, etc). When necessary, I'd call an official's time out for equipment and have the captain tie his shoe or look for a contact while I explained that the benefit of taking the technical foul had been eradicated by the rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

I was so frustrated with that decision that I would only grant a timeout in a "bail-out" situation (trapped in the corner, 5 or 10 second count, etc). When necessary, I'd call an official's time out for equipment and have the captain tie his shoe or look for a contact while I explained that the benefit of taking the technical foul had been eradicated by the rule.

As an official, not your job.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As an official, not your job.

The issue that I had was that the supplemental rules provided to the teams didn't mention anything about the new enforcement procedure when excessive time outs were called. Said supplemental rules covered all of the variations from the NCAA rules (men's rules were used for all intramural games) such as the continuous clock, bonus on the 5th foul of the half, no double bonus, etc. To me I was being asked to enforce something contrary to the rules, so I figured out a way that I could reconcile being told to enforce it in a way that wasn't consistent with the rules (NCAA or intramural supplemental rules). At the time, I was a kid that thought I could beat the man. Were I to find my self in a situation where my assignor, association or any other authority were to tell me to side aside a rule in a similar manner without putting it on paper and notifying all parties involved (i.e. the teams), I'd simply refuse to call the games. As much as I love calling games, it isn't my job and I have the wisdom to take a stance in a more appropriate way.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Adam

30+ year officials at that level get away with things the rest of us can't. I'll leave it at that.

Yup.

But still don't like it because of the result. The veteran official probably thought he was helping, and ended up making a bigger mess. Whoops.

While we're on the subject, someone please tell me if I'm right:

A) In NCAAW, an excess timeout results in two shots to offended team + ball to offended team at POI.

B) In NCAAM, an excess timeout results in two shots to offended team, then POI (ball back to the calling team).

Wasn't the NCAAM rule changed following the Chris Webber incident in 1993?