Quick on the T?

[CoachP]

Orange #5 defending the inbounder.
#51 white blows the layup and fouls #5 orange as #5 orange gets the rebound. After the whistle, #5 orange is T'd up for throwing an elbow by the foul calling official.
Clean game overall, nothing chippy before or after.

Not trying to be biased because I coach orange. But I didn't see anything T worthy. But because I respect the forum members here, I will change my mind if you guys think otherwise!

The video operator cut off the camera after the initial foul whistle.

6 second video link below

http://youtu.be/FOZRszGANzY

[ballgame99]

that elbow looks like it has some intent to it. You had a clean game up until that point, and I would imagine it stayed that way. If that elbow connects, you are going to have big problems. Its hard to say when its not in full context, and I'm not saying I would have called it, but it looks like a T can be justified there.

[Raymond]

Looks like he is just snatching the ball away. Not T-worthy in and of itself, but I do not know what the game was like or what had happened previously.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Looks like he is just snatching the ball away. Not T-worthy in and of itself, but I do not know what the game was like or what had happened previously.

Agree with this. Elbows aren't really extended or directed at anyone in my opinion.

[Camron Rust]

I do not have a T here.

[just another ref]

No T. His elbow is not extended, but rather his arms are wrapped around the ball. Elbow has to be somewhere.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Looks like he is just snatching the ball away. Not T-worthy in and of itself, but I do not know what the game was like or what had happened previously.

This is what I see as well. Seems to me the lead is in a better position to get anything extracurricular here.

There's no need for the snatch-and-grab here, though, so it's not the worst T I've ever seen.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

that elbow looks like it has some intent to it. You had a clean game up until that point, and I would imagine it stayed that way. If that elbow connects, you are going to have big problems. Its hard to say when its not in full context, and I'm not saying I would have called it, but it looks like a T can be justified there.

I was originally thinking "then call a violation for excessive swinging if you don't call a T," but I guess this happens dead ball, so it's either a T or nothing. Tough to give an absolute answer from this angle, but if I'm the C who made the call? I'm passing and if my partner picks it up, great.

[Pantherdreams]

I think this is really a perspective thing. If you think that this rip was part of the play and began or exists because of a natural basketball play then you could have an excessive swinging or even nothing.

Now if you see it as the player, heard the whistle and once the play was dead chooses to rip and swing un necessarily . . . if you are going to call something it has to a be a T.

In a game with nothing else I would be most likely to respond with an "easy fellas" and talk to players involved then watch for anything else hoping its a blip.

[crosscountry55]

I've been thinking about this and I'm 70/30 leaning in favor of the T here.

On one hand, I think #5 was thinking "rebound and secure," probably processed the whistle a little slow, and started thinking, "I don't need to be aggressive here" a fraction of a second after he'd already committed to being aggressive. Probably no intent to strike or anything like that.

On the other hand, elbows get noticed whether they're high or low, or whether they connect or not. So it's the kind of act that can cause tensions to flare later in the game. This needs to be taken care of quickly. Furthermore, in this age of concussion awareness and the elbows that often cause them, we simply can't usually take intent for granted. The responsibility for coaching players not to raise their elbows is a higher priority then the responsibility of officials to judge intent and contact. Think of it like helmet to helmet contact in the NFL; if it's close, it's going to get called, because that's the stance of the league. So, too, are elbow calls the stance of the NFHS and NCAA.

Also, some have been critical that this call didn't come from the L. That would have been nice, but C is already focused on the fouling player (probably while getting his number), so I'm ok that he also notices the elbow. Makes sense to me.

[APG]

Just judging on the merits of the play alone, that's not close to anything.

[dabard]

I'm with ballgame99. There certainly appeared to be justification for the call. Not sure what I would have called, but the official closest to the action would have had a better feel for the situation and the player's demeanor.

[jTheUmp]

Out of curiosity, was it the L or the C who called the T?

[CoachP]

C called the foul and kept moving in and issued the T.

[deecee]

just from that clip i dont see it. but it's tough to comment with such little context.