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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 12:08am
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6 on the court

Following a Time Out Team A has the ball for a throw-in. They complete the throw-in and A1 is dribbling. Coach B realizes he has 6 on the court. B6 runs off the court. An official observes this but lets play to continue. Team A misses a shot an Team B rebounds the ball. As they are moving the ball up the court. Coach B requests and is granted a Time Out. The officials huddle during the TO. Can they still call a Technical foul for too many players on tge court?
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 12:21am
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No. It must be called while it is occurring.
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 03:13am
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Why would an official observe this and let play continue?
The only reason that I can surmise is that a scoring play was in progress by the team with the correct number of team members on the court, so the whistle was temporarily withheld. Of course, it should be blown as soon as the scoring play is over.
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 05:55am
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This foul is penalized if discovered while being violated. Therefore, when an official discovers that a team is violating this rule, a foul occurs at that moment. Therefore, by 6-7-7, the ball becomes dead at that moment unless a try or tap is in flight or continuous motion applies. Since the only person who knows when exactly the foul occurs is the official who calls the foul, an official could easily hold off on the whistle if it seems like the fouling team's opponent has an obvious advantage, but technically, an official should wave off the basket if he notices there are six players before continuous motion applies.
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 07:23am
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Originally Posted by La Rikardo View Post
This foul is penalized if discovered while being violated. Therefore, when an official discovers that a team is violating this rule, a foul occurs at that moment. Therefore, by 6-7-7, the ball becomes dead at that moment unless a try or tap is in flight or continuous motion applies. Since the only person who knows when exactly the foul occurs is the official who calls the foul, an official could easily hold off on the whistle if it seems like the fouling team's opponent has an obvious advantage, but technically, an official should wave off the basket if he notices there are six players before continuous motion applies.
It seems that technical fouls are a bit different from normal fouls or violations in that the spirit and intent of the rules which demands that a team not unfairly gain an advantage from breaking the rules allows some additional leeway.
Here is the Case Play supporting an official delaying the whistle and the ball remaining live after the commission of an act that warrants a technical foul, even when a try is not taking place.

10.4.1 SITUATION F:

A1 is driving toward the basket for an apparent goal when the official, while trailing the play advancing in the direction in which the ball is being advanced, is cursed by the head coach or bench personnel of Team B. How should the official handle this situation?

RULING: The official shall withhold blowing the whistle until A1 has either made or missed the shot. The official shall then sound the whistle and assess the Team B head coach or bench personnel with a technical foul. If the official judges the act to be flagrant, the offender shall be ejected. If A's coach or bench personnel was the offender, the whistle shall be sounded immediately when the unsporting act occurs. (10-4-1a)
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 08:04am
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La Ricardo and Nevadaref your points are well taken but they don't seem to apply to my post. A1 is slowly advancing up the court when the extra player was noticed. Plus they allowed Team B to get the rebound and slowly advance the ball to mid court before calling TO.
Case play 10.1.6 is sort of similar. That play states the official notices the extra play but cannot sound the whistle before the game ends. In my post the official does not make any attempt until the time out.
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 08:45am
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Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
La Ricardo and Nevadaref your points are well taken but they don't seem to apply to my post.
In that case, see post #2
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 12:37pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Why would an official observe this and let play continue?
There are quite a few officials that believe a technical for 6 on the court should never or almost never be called because it is the fault of the officials for allowing 6 on the court.
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 01:09pm
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I am just trying to find out if anyone here could find a wrinkle in the rules that would allow the official to call this a technical foul. When I saw the play occure I did not think that a Technical foul could be called. After I looked in the Rule/Case books I still could not find a reason to call a T. And people seem to agree that it was too late to assess a T.
But the crew in the game did call a T.
Thanks for the discussion
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 01:18pm
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Penalized if discovered while being violated.

Are some saying that once the player steps off the court it's too late? Coach B yells, B1 quickly sits down, then officials immediately count 5 still on the court. At this point I think you call it. In the OP significant action occurs after the player leaves, followed by a timeout and a conference. Too late now.
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 01:29pm
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Maybe?

Maybe they were thinking it was a substitute and using 10.2.2. If you look at the Casebook, it says you have until the next live ball following the first dead ball to administer the T.

I wouldn't think this applies thought since the situation is "During a live ball and with the clock running, substitute A6 enters the court". I believe you said the sub was on when the ball became live.

I am not saying they were right and this applies to your situation. I am just giving you a scenario where they would be correct if the situation matched.

Edit - This was the justification on the 2014 IAABO refresher exam for question #33 which asked "Substitute B-6 enters the court while the live ball is in control of Team A and the clock is running. The officials are unaware that Team B has 6 players in the game. B-6 returns to the bench after which Team A requests and is granted a time-out. The scorer now informs the officials that Team B had 6 players on the court. The Referee rules the statute of limitations to penalize has expired. Is the official correct? ". I specifically remember this because I was surprised they said we could use the table for more information.

Last edited by RefCT; Tue Mar 03, 2015 at 01:38pm. Reason: Clarification
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 01:30pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Penalized if discovered while being violated.

Are some saying that once the player steps off the court it's too late? Coach B yells, B1 quickly sits down, then officials immediately count 5 still on the court. At this point I think you call it. In the OP significant action occurs after the player leaves, followed by a timeout and a conference. Too late now.
If I see him leave the court and then count 5, I'll call the T. If I see him leave the court and ignore it for 30 seconds, I can't go back and call that any more than I could call the travel I passed on last time up the court.
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 01:31pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If I see him leave the court and then count 5, I'll call the T. If I see him leave the court and ignore it for 30 seconds, I can't go back and call that any more than I could call the travel I passed on last time up the court.
agree
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 01:43pm
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Too late to call a T but my question is, why wasn't it caught by the official putting the ball into play after the TO?. I always count the number of players to ensure there are only 5 from each team on the floor prior to putting the ball into play. I just thought that was SOP

Robby
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Old Tue Mar 03, 2015, 02:04pm
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Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
Too late to call a T but my question is, why wasn't it caught by the official putting the ball into play after the TO?. I always count the number of players to ensure there are only 5 from each team on the floor prior to putting the ball into play. I just thought that was SOP

Robby
It is, but sometimes it happens. I count every time, but I've still had to call the T once. Players move around, sometimes making it hard to count them. Sometimes we miss one because we've counted to 5 so many times we don't really look THAT closely.

It's still on the coach.
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