KU - WV offensive foul (video)

[ballgame99]

Thoughts on this play?


The title says something about fooling the referee, but really isn't this defender just making the referee make a call? If a low defender has clear position and the offensive player displaces him backward and he just gives ground we aren't going to call it, but if he allows that displacement to knock him over then he at least has a chance of drawing the PC. No lower angle so the amount of contact on this play is hard to judge.

In this particular play I find it interesting where the call comes from.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

In this particular play I find it interesting where the call comes from.

The trail was behind in his quota at the time. Any howler monkey will tell you that.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

In this particular play I find it interesting where the call comes from.

That was the first thing I thought of.

[john5396]

I don't work basketball, just follow the conversations here to make me a more knowledgeable fan. So I really don't know how this should be covered...

But it looks like C&L happened to get perfect position to be straight lined, couldn't use a ruler to draw a line straighter from L through the players to C.

Should one of them be moving to get a better angle on this matchup.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by john5396

I don't work basketball, just follow the conversations here to make me a more knowledgeable fan. So I really don't know how this should be covered...

But it looks like C&L happened to get perfect position to be straight lined, couldn't use a ruler to draw a line straighter from L through the players to C.

Should one of them be moving to get a better angle on this matchup.

C was looking right at the play, and was not straight-lined. And the L has a match-up in his area right in front of him.T may not have had much going on in his area, but I still wonder why he was looking at the far post. Perhaps looking out for traveling, but I think the C should have made the foul/no-foul call here.

[chymechowder]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

In this particular play I find it interesting where the call comes from.

Watch the C's body language as the call is made. I think he might feel the same as you, haha.

[deecee]

looks like a flop.

[twocentsworth]

The angle that I had on this play (the couch in my living room!) leads me to believe that the offensive player did not go THRU the defenders' body/space, merely stopped when contact was made and made his spin move.

I would not have called this a PC foul. Definitely NOT from Trail if I were working this game.

I'm guessing the Big12 observer in attendance probably noted this call in his game report w/ the comments like: "out of area call. trust your partners. only get hi-certainty non-basketball plays when reaching".

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Thoughts on this play?

The title says something about fooling the referee, but really isn't this defender just making the referee make a call? If a low defender has clear position and the offensive player displaces him backward and he just gives ground we aren't going to call it, but if he allows that displacement to knock him over then he at least has a chance of drawing the PC. No lower angle so the amount of contact on this play is hard to judge.

Your terms are contradictory. If the defender is giving ground, then there was no displacement. If there is displacement, there should be a foul.

If more officials would call such offensive fouls (displacement) appropriately, perhaps defenders wouldn't feel like they have to fall down to get the call.

[mutantducky]

indeed. methink the center did not have a foul there. There was contact but not enough to make him fall like that.
Vlade would be proud!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Thoughts on this play?


The title says something about fooling the referee, but really isn't this defender just making the referee make a call? If a low defender has clear position and the offensive player displaces him backward and he just gives ground we aren't going to call it, but if he allows that displacement to knock him over then he at least has a chance of drawing the PC. No lower angle so the amount of contact on this play is hard to judge.

In this particular play I find it interesting where the call comes from.

I am a life long Jay Hawk and I would call that charge.

I think the C should have been able to make this call. It appears that he had a good angle to get it.

MTD, Sr.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Your terms are contradictory. If the defender is giving ground, then there was no displacement. If there is displacement, there should be a foul.

You know what I'm talking about; the defender isn't really "giving ground" the larger offensive player is taking it, and just backing him down. Most defenders are taught to wall up and try and hold their ground, but if the offensive player is larger they can't and end up getting backed down just because they are smaller. So they get displaced 6 inches at a time. I think most would agree that is not called a PC at most levels. Maybe it should be? In this play, the defender establishes position and refuses to move backward, and he sells it a bit. But I'm ok with that.

[APG]

Pretty identical play in an NBA game...with a T thrown on top

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am a life long Jay Hawk and I would call that charge.

I think the C should have been able to make this call. It appears that he had a good angle to get it.

MTD, Sr.

Lifetime "Jay Hawk" or "Jayhawk"?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

You know what I'm talking about; the defender isn't really "giving ground" the larger offensive player is taking it, and just backing him down. Most defenders are taught to wall up and try and hold their ground, but if the offensive player is larger they can't and end up getting backed down just because they are smaller. So they get displaced 6 inches at a time. I think most would agree that is not called a PC at most levels. Maybe it should be? In this play, the defender establishes position and refuses to move backward, and he sells it a bit. But I'm ok with that.

Should be, but a way to increase the odds is not to move your feet. Make the dribbler knock you to the floor.