WVU/Kansas Traveling (Video)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Triad zebra

Is the College rule different?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A.R. 198. Is it traveling when a player:
...
3. Gains control of the ball while sliding on the playing court and then,
because of momentum, rolls or slides, after which the player passes or
starts a dribble before getting to his feet?
RULING ...
When a player rises to his feet while holding the ball and moves the pivot foot, it is traveling. When a player falls to one knee while holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves.

Which means (to summarize) that the college rule is in fact different. NFHS doesn't allow for either a player to rise or fall even partially regardless of the pivot foot's status while NCAA does allow rising/falling if a pivot foot is maintained.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Which means (to summarize) that the college rule is in fact different. NFHS doesn't allow for either a player to rise or fall even partially regardless of the pivot foot's status while NCAA does allow rising/falling if a pivot foot is maintained.

You ever seen a player fall to the floor and maintain a pivot foot?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You ever seen a player fall to the floor and maintain a pivot foot?

I have seen them fall to the floor without having establish a pivot foot in the first place.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I have seen them fall to the floor without having establish a pivot foot in the first place.

So would that be traveling in NCAA?

[JeffM]

I would consider diving to the floor to get a loose ball be the same as falling to the floor without a pivot foot. So, I don't think falling to the floor without having established a pivot foot is a violation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JeffM

I would consider diving to the floor to get a loose ball be the same as falling to the floor without a pivot foot. So, I don't think falling to the floor without having established a pivot foot is a violation.

Incorrect. To be legal the player has to obtain control of the ball after being on the floor. Having control (holding the ball) and then falling to the floor is always a violation.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JeffM

I would consider diving to the floor to get a loose ball be the same as falling to the floor without a pivot foot. So, I don't think falling to the floor without having established a pivot foot is a violation.

If the ball is loose, then the player doesn't possess it. And if a player doesn't possess the ball, how does he establish a pivot foot?

[APG]

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You ever seen a player fall to the floor and maintain a pivot foot?

Yes.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes.

I suppose I'm not envisioning how someone could be standing on two feet and then fall to the floor without having established a pivot first. I can picture someone gaining possession of the ball mid-air and then landing on the floor without either foot touching the floor.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JeffM

I suppose I'm not envisioning how someone could be standing on two feet and then fall to the floor without having established a pivot first. I can picture someone gaining possession of the ball mid-air and then landing on the floor without either foot touching the floor.

Having two feet on the floor doesn't mean the player is in a stable position.

Example...player jumps for the ball, catches it in mid-air, lands on one foot followed by the other but is off balance. They fall to the floor such that the first foot down doesn't move. Certainly not common, but not really that improbable either.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JeffM

I suppose I'm not envisioning how someone could be standing on two feet and then fall to the floor without having established a pivot first. I can picture someone gaining possession of the ball mid-air and then landing on the floor without either foot touching the floor.

Your right..when a person holding the ball starts to fall one foot is likely to move or come up first making the other the pivot. Then the fall and the pivot foot is not held. As NCAA notes in ar 198-falling to floor and keeping pivot foot "virtually impossible."

I've seen a player have two feet down for an instant, no pivot foot ESTABLISHED yet, both feet then fly out in front of him, he goes down with ball. Jump stop play. He was leaning back when he landed on two feet. He never established pivot foot but it is travel under rules and case book plays. That is travel because although the right or left foot was never established as THE pivot..one of them was and it moved. (we talked about this some weeks ago in connection with player jumping in air before establishing pivot foot and then dribbling...there's a case play that talks about having a pivot foot even though you dont have it "established" yet--4.44.3B.