Removing jersey

[letemplay]

Approx 2 min prior to tip-off, Team B removes their warm-up tops revealing to officials that each player is wearing a white tshirt under a blue game top. (Team A is wearing white.) Officials notify Team B HC, the undershirts must go, whereupon ALL Team B players go to bench area and begin stripping to bare chest to get these shirts off and blue tops only back on. Some are even still struggling to get this task completed as both teams come on floor to line up for National Anthem.
If game has not yet started, are players in violation of 10-3-6 (h), and if so, what is penalty(s).

[BryanV21]

I believe it is a technical foul (indirect to HC as the players are bench personnel at the time... like a dunk would be pre-game). The game starts with Team A getting two FTs and the ball, with the AP arrow going to Team B.

[griblets]

Almost had this happen yesterday at our MS boys' final. Blue jerseys and black undershirts. Fortunately, when we informed the coach, we quickly recognized the players were about to change on the court and we sent them to the locker room to change before any harm was done.

The MS officials apparently let this go all season, and now that they have experienced officials for their playoffs, the teams are just learning about the new rules.

[deecee]

I instruct coaches to have their players go in the hallway and do this. I also think each instance is a direct to the kid and indirect to the coach in this instance.

If 3 players dunk each get a T and the coach get's 3 indirects?


Am I wrong?

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by deecee

I instruct coaches to have their players go in the hallway and do this. I also think each instance is a direct to the kid and indirect to the coach in this instance.

If 3 players dunk each get a T and the coach get's 3 indirects?


Am I wrong?

After I wrote my initial response I thought of that question, and didn't know. So I've stayed back and waited for that clarification. LOL

My guess would be each gets a technical, and the indirects to the HC, but the penalty remains two FTs and the ball to start the game.

[deecee]

I think the penalties add up. The penalty you are thinking of I think is for illegal uniforms. Those don't accumulate.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

I instruct coaches to have their players go in the hallway and do this. I also think each instance is a direct to the kid and indirect to the coach in this instance.

If 3 players dunk each get a T and the coach get's 3 indirects?


Am I wrong?

I'd use 10.4.4B to only assess 1 T.

Just like I'd do if three players all dunked the same ball at the same time.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'd use 10.4.4B to only assess 1 T.

Just like I'd do if three players all dunked the same ball at the same time.

What's to stop a team from saying "well, we already got a technical foul for his dunk, so I might as well dunk too." And thus making a mockery of the entire rule?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'd use 10.4.4B to only assess 1 T.

Just like I'd do if three players all dunked the same ball at the same time.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

What's to stop a team from saying "well, we already got a technical foul for his dunk, so I might as well dunk too." And thus making a mockery of the entire rule?

RIF.

Separate dunks <> "everyone taking off the shirt at the same time" and isn't what we are (I am) discussing. The "separate Ts" case is covered elsewhere.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Approx 2 min prior to tip-off, Team B removes their warm-up tops revealing to officials that each player is wearing a white tshirt under a blue game top. (Team A is wearing white.) Officials notify Team B HC, the undershirts must go, whereupon ALL Team B players go to bench area and begin stripping to bare chest to get these shirts off and blue tops only back on. Some are even still struggling to get this task completed as both teams come on floor to line up for National Anthem.
If game has not yet started, are players in violation of 10-3-6 (h), and if so, what is penalty(s).

Any official who tells players to change their undershirts without also telling them and their coach, MULTIPLE TIMES, to leave the confines of the court needs to be a better official.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by griblets

Almost had this happen yesterday at our MS boys' final. Blue jerseys and black undershirts. Fortunately, when we informed the coach, we quickly recognized the players were about to change on the court and we sent them to the locker room to change before any harm was done.

The MS officials apparently let this go all season, and now that they have experienced officials for their playoffs, the teams are just learning about the new rules.

This is not a new rule.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Any official who tells players to change their undershirts without also telling them and their coach, MULTIPLE TIMES, to leave the confines of the court needs to be a better official.

That's the FIRST thing we tell them. Not that we've got a lock on what's the best to do and say it kinda goes like this, after we discover the problem right after the warmups come off and the jump is about to happen:

"Coach, there's no penalty for this, and we've gotta be careful that your players take care of it right now -- not here, but -- in the lockerroom. You said they were legally equipped, but #24 and #35 are not -- those are illegal undershirts. We need -- with no penalty to you -- two new starters while those two go take care of that in the lockerroom. OK?"
Hopefully that combines the elements of tactfulness and expediency.
Haven't had any problems when framed like that.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Any official who tells players to change their undershirts without also telling them and their coach, MULTIPLE TIMES, to leave the confines of the court needs to be a better official.

Exactly.

First game of the season I inform the coach of an illegal undershirt. While I'm still talking to him he signals to his player that the he has to change undershirts who, sitting on the bench with other starters and with the rest of the team huddled around him, immediately starts changing it. Coach goes, "No, not here" and looks at me. At this point the kid is already putting his jersey back on.

I tell the coach just to make sure he complies with the rule moving forward and we go on about our business.

I had similar situation a few years ago with blood on a jersey and handled it the same way. Unless its a repeated offense I'm not issuing a technical foul in this situation. IMO its not intelligently applying the intent and purpose of the rule.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Freddy

That's the FIRST thing we tell them. Not that we've got a lock on what's the best to do and say it kinda goes like this, after we discover the problem right after the warmups come off and the jump is about to happen:

"Coach, there's no penalty for this, and we've gotta be careful that your players take care of it right now -- not here, but -- in the lockerroom. You said they were legally equipped, but #24 and #35 are not -- those are illegal undershirts. We need -- with no penalty to you -- two new starters while those two go take care of that in the lockerroom. OK?"
Hopefully that combines the elements of tactfulness and expediency.
Haven't had any problems when framed like that.

What good does this do?

Also, why not just let the starters go to the hallway (or lockerroom) and change while you wait about 30 extra seconds?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

What good does this do?

Also, why not just let the starters go to the hallway (or lockerroom) and change while you wait about 30 extra seconds?

I had it this season the day after our last big discussion about such events (forum jinx). Had the 2 starters run to the locker room and change, then tipped off.