NBA - Chris Paul Criticizing a Female Official

Originally Posted by Adam

Watching the video, she moved just as fast as possible on this.

Not the issue.

Exactly, she went just as fast as any other ref would have done in the situation.

Originally Posted by APG

Not entirely true...outside of two minutes in each quarter, if there's a violation where the ball will be inbounded in the backcourt, the substitute must already be in the substitution box at the time of the violation.

I'm not saying there would be no subs allowed by rule, just that no coach would have sent new subs to the table so quickly following a timeout or free throws.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

People are certainly free to "read between the lines" when hearing comments made by another. However, they run the risk of being incorrect when they ascribe meaning to statements thru lens of their own viewpoint & perspective.

Chris Paul was complaining about the officiating...nothing more nothing less.

A famous person once said: "Context is everything."

Consider that: the Clippers complain more than any team in the NBA (may have the most T's this season) about officiating; received 5 T's in this game; Chris Paul is the Pres. of the NBAPA (which now has a woman as Ex. Dir.); & is generally considered a true "nice guy" in NBA circles.

When I heard those comments, I heard a frustrated player complaining about an unwarranted T he received by a rookie official....because THAT is exactly what happened. Nothing more - nothing less.

btw - there are 2 reasons you don't hear NBA players making comments about female NBA rookie officials: 1) 1997 was the last time there was a female rookie NBA official (there were two that season: Violet Palmer (still active) and Dee Kantner (fired in 2002)); and 2) it's only because the official in question is a woman that these remarks are being noticed.

Every season for the past 18 years (since Palmer & Kantner were hired), players, coaches, & others have complained about bad calls by rookie officials - this is no different, except that people are taking a fairly routine occurrence and turning it into something more than it really deserves.

Chris Paul will get fined by the NBA and I'll bet that the NBA doesn't even come close to mentioning gender in its statement in announcing the fine. This will go away if people will simply let Paul's innocuous statement stand on its' own rather than insert their own sensitivities to it.

I do not care if what is the context that you see it to be. I have every right to judge based on his actions and his comments. Again, I have yet to hear anyone give me a single case where an NBA player spoke personally about a rookie of any other gender or time or situation. I watch a lot of SportsCenter and cannot think of one case. Not a single one.

I also saw the Paul comments and just like any other comments, I do not believe him. I have the right not to believe him. He is trying to cover his behind IMO and he clearly to me was trying to rip her because she was an easy target. I doubt seriously that the entire conflict was only because she was a rookie. He did not like a woman telling him what to do and that is why he had to talk about her qualifications, not that it was just a bad call.

Peace

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not care if what is the context that you see it to be. I have every right to judge based on his actions and his comments. Again, I have yet to hear anyone give me a single case where an NBA player spoke personally about a rookie of any other gender or time or situation. I watch a lot of SportsCenter and cannot think of one case. Not a single one.

I also saw the Paul comments and just like any other comments, I do not believe him. I have the right not to believe him. He is trying to cover his behind IMO and he clearly to me was trying to rip her because she was an easy target. I doubt seriously that the entire conflict was only because she was a rookie. He did not like a woman telling him what to do and that is why he had to talk about her qualifications, not that it was just a bad call.

Peace

From ESPN.com:
TORONTO -- National Basketball Players Association executive director Michele Roberts said any suggestion that Los Angeles Clippers guard Chris Paul would be disrespectful toward women is "utterly ridiculous, outrageous and patently false," hours after the head of the National Basketball Referees Association called the All-Star's comments on official Lauren Holtkamp "personal and unprofessional."

"Without hesitation, the Players Association stands firmly behind Chris, whose competitiveness may only be exceeded by the strength of his values and his conviction," Roberts said in a statement.

On Friday, Paul repeatedly said it was "a bad call" that prompted him to criticize Holtkamp's officiating Thursday night -- nothing more.
-------------------------
As I've said before, a person can infer whatever meaning they want to Chris Pauls' comments, however they run the risk of being entirely wrong. Unfortunately, it seems as though you've taken his comments out of context and assigned gender-discrimination to them inaccurately.

btw - Did you know that Violet Palmer was assigned to work the 1997 NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball Tournament only to have that assignment revoked when "people" complained about having a woman officiate men's games? Now THAT is a case of comments/actions being taken because of a person's gender….THIS (Chris Paul) is not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

From ESPN.com:
TORONTO -- National Basketball Players Association executive director Michele Roberts said any suggestion that Los Angeles Clippers guard Chris Paul would be disrespectful toward women is "utterly ridiculous, outrageous and patently false," hours after the head of the National Basketball Referees Association called the All-Star's comments on official Lauren Holtkamp "personal and unprofessional."

"Without hesitation, the Players Association stands firmly behind Chris, whose competitiveness may only be exceeded by the strength of his values and his conviction," Roberts said in a statement.

On Friday, Paul repeatedly said it was "a bad call" that prompted him to criticize Holtkamp's officiating Thursday night -- nothing more.
-------------------------
As I've said before, a person can infer whatever meaning they want to Chris Pauls' comments, however they run the risk of being entirely wrong. Unfortunately, it seems as though you've taken his comments out of context and assigned gender-discrimination to them inaccurately.

btw - Did you know that Violet Palmer was assigned to work the 1997 NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball Tournament only to have that assignment revoked when "people" complained about having a woman officiate men's games? Now THAT is a case of comments/actions being taken because of a person's gender….THIS (Chris Paul) is not.

So the union stands behind their president? Oh, never mind then.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

So the union stands behind their president? Oh, never mind then.

He would've never said anything had this been a male. He would've been another nameless, faceless official. One person here seems to think otherwise. He's wrong.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

From ESPN.com:
TORONTO -- National Basketball Players Association executive director Michele Roberts said any suggestion that Los Angeles Clippers guard Chris Paul would be disrespectful toward women is "utterly ridiculous, outrageous and patently false," hours after the head of the National Basketball Referees Association called the All-Star's comments on official Lauren Holtkamp "personal and unprofessional."

"Without hesitation, the Players Association stands firmly behind Chris, whose competitiveness may only be exceeded by the strength of his values and his conviction," Roberts said in a statement.

On Friday, Paul repeatedly said it was "a bad call" that prompted him to criticize Holtkamp's officiating Thursday night -- nothing more.
-------------------------
As I've said before, a person can infer whatever meaning they want to Chris Pauls' comments, however they run the risk of being entirely wrong. Unfortunately, it seems as though you've taken his comments out of context and assigned gender-discrimination to them inaccurately.

btw - Did you know that Violet Palmer was assigned to work the 1997 NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball Tournament only to have that assignment revoked when "people" complained about having a woman officiate men's games? Now THAT is a case of comments/actions being taken because of a person's gender….THIS (Chris Paul) is not.

OK and the NBARA stood behind the official. And I heard that Paul was fined 25K for this little comments.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... Paul was fined 25K for this little comments.

Would the fine be the same if he had criticized a male official in the same manner for the same situation?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK and the NBARA stood behind the official. And I heard that Paul was fined 25K for this little comments.

"Chris Paul has been fined $25,000 for his public criticism of Lauren Holtkamp, the first-year referee who called a technical foul against the Los Angeles Clippers star point guard earlier this week."
Full story:
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=12292518

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

He would've never said anything had this been a male. He would've been another nameless, faceless official. One person here seems to think otherwise. He's wrong.

Agreed.

[Rob1968]

Many years ago, a rookie ref called a foul on Michael Jordan, near the end of a close game, against the Utah Jazz. When Mr. Jordan verbally objected, with something along the lines of, "You can't call that on me!" the ref T'd him and tossed him. The Jazz won the game.
That rookie ref lost his schedule for the rest of the season, and was brought back the next season, "on probation". It was understood by the officials, and those of us who knew the background of the situation, that A) nobody comes to watch the refs, and B) nobody comes to watch the 11th or 12th player on the bench.

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Many years ago, a rookie ref called a foul on Michael Jordan, near the end of a close game, against the Utah Jazz. When Mr. Jordan verbally objected, with something along the lines of, "You can't call that on me!" the ref T'd him and tossed him. The Jazz won the game.
That rookie ref lost his schedule for the rest of the season, and was brought back the next season, "on probation". It was understood by the officials, and those of us who knew the background of the situation, that A) nobody comes to watch the refs, and B) nobody comes to watch the 11th or 12th player on the bench.

Got a citation for this bit of trivia?

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Jealousy....typical HS association backbiting towards officials who choose to rise to upper levels of officiating.

Originally Posted by Adam

Even if she was a horrible official when there (doubtful), the local officials should STFU. I wouldn't want to work with any of them, personally.

The guy that said it hasn't worked long enough to have worked with her. I know she worked MS games here but I'm not sure if she ever worked much varsity before she moved away.

The main comment had to do with how the official thought she needs to go work in the WNBA. Typical sexist stuff.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Got a citation for this bit of trivia?

I watched the game. And the follow-up portion of my narative came from 2 NBA refs, one of whom, as a guest speeker, recited the story to our officiating group of aprox. 150 officials. The other confirmed the story in personal conversations, with me and others of my officiating colleagues.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

People are certainly free to "read between the lines" when hearing comments made by another. However, they run the risk of being incorrect when they ascribe meaning to statements thru lens of their own viewpoint & perspective.

Chris Paul was complaining about the officiating...nothing more nothing less.

Talk about running the risk of being incorrect...How can you possibly know this to be the case? You are doing EXACTLY what you describe in your post..."thru lens of their own viewpoint & perspective"

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Would the fine be the same if he had criticized a male official in the same manner for the same situation?

One would hope that the league would be consistent, but we all know that the fine would not be the same. This particular fine is about the NBA attempting to protect its newest female official. For several years now league has made it known that it has a desire to have a female official or two working games and is going to take whatever measures it needs to enact that. This is mostly PR and PC so the league can been seen as inclusive.