Hitting the Ball with One's Fist

[chymechowder]

This happened in a men's league game I was officiating:

A1 is bringing the ball up, dribbling in his backcourt. He's not covered, but he loses the handle on the ball. It's rolling slowly in front of him when he strikes it with the heel of his closed hand to get it to bounce back up so that he can continue dribbling it.

I'd never seen that before. My first thought was: Wait is that a violation for striking the ball with a fist? But Men's league + Team B not playing defense = no whistle.

But would you call this in a Varsity high school game? Would it matter whether Team B had caused the interrupted dribble or not?

Also got me wondering: what's the intended reasoning behind the rule? Is it a control issue? Or a safety issue?

[APG]

The purpose of the rule is so players don't come in flying with a fist in a crowd, miss...and clobber someone upside the head.

Originally Posted by chymechowder

This happened in a men's league game I was officiating:

A1 is bringing the ball up, dribbling in his backcourt. He's not covered, but he loses the handle on the ball. It's rolling slowly in front of him when he strikes it with the heel of his closed hand to get it to bounce back up so that he can continue dribbling it.

I'd never seen that before. My first thought was: Wait is that a violation for striking the ball with a fist? But Men's league + Team B not playing defense = no whistle.

But would you call this in a Varsity high school game? Would it matter whether Team B had caused the interrupted dribble or not?

Also got me wondering: what's the intended reasoning behind the rule? Is it a control issue? Or a safety issue?

If he hit it with the heel of his hand while having a closed fist then it sounds like he didn't actually punch the ball.

[BillyMac]

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...unch-ball.html

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

A1 is bringing the ball up, dribbling in his backcourt. He's not covered, but he loses the handle on the ball. It's rolling slowly in front of him when he strikes it with the heel of his closed hand to get it to bounce back up so that he can continue dribbling it.

If the ball had definitely stopped bouncing on the floor, maybe it was motionless, and just sitting there, and if the ball handler never touched the ball with both hands, or held the ball, would one allow the ball handler to just keep on dribbling? The dribble never really ended? Right?

4-15-4: The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both
hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or
both hands.
c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to
lose control.
e. The ball becomes dead.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If the ball had definitely stopped bouncing on the floor, maybe it was motionless, and just sitting there,



4-15-4: The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both
hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or
both hands.
c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to
lose control.
e. The ball becomes dead.

If the ball is "just sitting there" it's at rest. If he now touches the ball it's "at rest in one hand". Sounds like this ends the dribble to me.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the ball is "just sitting there" it's at rest. If he now touches the ball it's "at rest in one hand". Sounds like this ends the dribble to me.

No. It isn't "in one hand".

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No. It isn't "in one hand".

Define "in one hand."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Define "in one hand."

Really?

Just touching the ball certainly isn't.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Really?

Just touching the ball certainly isn't.

You're saying this is a legal play?

[APG]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You're saying this is a legal play?

What makes it illegal?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by APG

What makes it illegal?

Dunno. It just seems illegal.

The comes to rest in one hand thing was the best I could do on short notice.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Dunno. It just seems illegal.

The comes to rest in one hand thing was the best I could do on short notice.

Well, how about this....

There is no limit on how high a dribble can go. Right? Wouldn't this just be a really short dribble?

I might agree with you in the spirit of the rule if the player deliberately pinned the ball between his hand and the floor. That could be argued to be at rest in the hand.

However, a momentary contact isn't at rest in the hand any more than it would be on every dribble. It may be at rest on the floor, but that is not the same as in the hand.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I might agree with you in the spirit of the rule if the player deliberately pinned the ball between his hand and the floor. That could be argued to be at rest in the hand.

That's exactly what he did. It will never happen in a game. But if it does, I think I would call it a violation.

[Raymond]

Fisting, just don't verbalize the violation in a gym full of moms.

Would not have a violation on the OP's play.