Hitting the Ball with One's Fist

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

If the ball is resting on the floor, it's not resting in the hand.

If it's pinned between the two, why is it not resting in/on both? Why is this different than when the dribbler pins the ball to his own leg?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it's pinned between the two, why is it not resting in/on both? Why is this different than when the dribbler pins the ball to his own leg?

Ball pinned on leg is caught. dribble rule says it ends if caught or comes to rest….

when it is sitting on the floor it is in contact with what it is that makes it a dribble. the floor. all, theory, havnt thought through. sounded good to me...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it's pinned between the two, why is it not resting in/on both? Why is this different than when the dribbler pins the ball to his own leg?

It may not be if he actually pinned it to the floor, but he didn't. He batted the ball, that's all. That is just another dribble.

As for the leg analogy, the ball touching the leg on the way down or even while in contact with the dribbler's hand is nothing. The ball must get "caught" there, frozen between the hand and leg, for it to be a violation.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As for the leg analogy, the ball touching the leg on the way down or even while in contact with the dribbler's hand is nothing. The ball must get "caught" there, frozen between the hand and leg, for it to be a violation.

In other words stationary, motionless, just like it is on the floor in the play at hand.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it's pinned between the two, why is it not resting in/on both? Why is this different than when the dribbler pins the ball to his own leg?

Without his hand there, it's still going to rest on the floor.
Without his hand there, it's not going to stick to his leg.

That's the difference, but I think you know that.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

Without his hand there, it's still going to rest on the floor.
Without his hand there, it's not going to stick to his leg.

Now we're just talking gravity. The dribbler is ultimately responsible. How it got there doesn't matter. If the ball becomes pinned between the hand and anything, it seems to me that would end the dribble.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Now we're just talking gravity. The dribbler is ultimately responsible. How it got there doesn't matter. If the ball becomes pinned between the hand and anything, it seems to me that would end the dribble.

"anything?" You've got two options, really. The floor, or his person. If it's his person, then we generally consider him to be holding it. There's nothing about the floor that requires us to consider it the same as his leg.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

"anything?" You've got two options, really. The floor, or his person. If it's his person, then we generally consider him to be holding it. There's nothing about the floor that requires us to consider it the same as his leg.

The ball is not allowed to be stationary while in contact with the hand during a dribble. That is my interpretation. Having said that, I've never seen this happen and don't expect to see it. Seeing it in a game context might change this interpretation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The ball is not allowed to be stationary while in contact with the hand during a dribble. That is my interpretation. Having said that, I've never seen this happen and don't expect to see it. Seeing it in a game context might change this interpretation.

If that is the case, then you'll be calling a an illegal dribble after every single bounce if the dribbler is not moving. If the ball is going straight up and down, it is stationary for a moment on every single dribble at the apex of the dribble....and that is when the hand is usually in contact with the ball.

At rest in the hand isn't talking about it being momentarily stationary while touching the hand but being in constant contact for more than a brief contact with the hand (i.e, more than a bat or a tap) such that without the hand it would fall free.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If that is the case, then you'll be calling a an illegal dribble after every single bounce if the dribbler is not moving. If the ball is going straight up and down, it is stationary for a moment on every single dribble at the apex of the dribble....and that is when the hand is usually in contact with the ball.

At rest in the hand isn't talking about it being momentarily stationary while touching the hand but being in constant contact for more than a brief contact with the hand (i.e, more than a bat or a tap) such that without the hand it would fall free.

I didn't word it the best, but I was still referring to the ball being pinned between the hand and whatever. When the ball is pinned long enough that it is discernibly stationary, I'm thinking that's too long.