Possession question

[finqb13]

I'm not a bb official, but was asked about this instance. Buzzer goes off at the end of the 3rd quarter and the official calls for a jump ball. Arrow says team A. Teams go to benches and come back out for the 4th and team b is awarded possession of the ball. Team A got the throw in for the 3rd quarter. The argument was why didn't team A get the throw in for the 4th quarter after the official called a jump ball? Thank you.

[DrPete]

The alternating possession throw-in never happened for the "jump ball" the official called as time was expiring, so the arrow should not have been changed. You start the next quarter with the AP throw in according to the arrow.
And, just because Team A got the ball for the throw in to start the third quarter, doesn't mean Team B will get it for the fourth quarter, there are lots of ways the alternating arrow can change over the course of the game, not just at the beginning of a quarter.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by DrPete

And, just because Team A got the ball for the throw in to start the third quarter, doesn't mean Team B will get it for the fourth quarter, there are lots of ways the alternating arrow can change over the course of the game, not just at the beginning of a quarter.

I believe your point is that there are several different things that can result in an alternating-possession situation (held ball, simultaneous violations, etc), but as a point of clarification, there is only 1 way for the arrow to be appropriately reversed and that is the completion of an alternating possession throw-in.

[deecee]

the throw in's are decided by the AP arrow not who got the throw in for each quarter in HS and College.

Secondly when a quarter ends the next quarter is started with the AP arrow.

How can you have a jump ball after the buzzer sounds to end a quarter? you can't. If the AP arrow was pointing at team A then then they should have had the ball to start the 4th quarter.

[La Rikardo]

To OP: Please see 6-4-4 and 4-42-5.

[APG]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

To OP: Please see 6-4-4 and 4-42-5.

The OP said he isn't a basketball official. I would doubt that he has a rule book.

[MD Longhorn]

A should have gotten the throw in, not B.

[UpperValley]

Having been a scorekeeper for many years, this looks like a forgotten change of the arrow. The OP states team A got the ball to start the third quarter. Assuming no held balls during the third quarter, the arrow should have team B possession. Upon conferring at the end of the quarter, it's discovered that the arrow wasn't changed at the beginning of the quarter, therefore giving B the possession arrow. It happens.

(Agree that you can't have a held ball after the buzzer.)

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by finqb13

I'm not a bb official, but was asked about this instance. Buzzer goes off at the end of the 3rd quarter and the official calls for a jump ball. Arrow says team A. Teams go to benches and come back out for the 4th and team b is awarded possession of the ball. Team A got the throw in for the 3rd quarter. The argument was why didn't team A get the throw in for the 4th quarter after the official called a jump ball? Thank you.

The thread was briefly on point and then got off topic. So I wanted to get back to the OP.

When a violation or held ball occurs so close to the expiration of playing time for a quarter that the timer is unable to stop the clock in time, the quarter ends with the violation or held ball. In other words, we essentially ignore it unless we have definite knowledge of a timing mistake that would give us reason to put time back on the clock.

So in this case, it sounds like it was a case of a held ball nearly simultaneous with the expiration of time. Leave the clock alone, ignore the held ball, send the teams to their benches and start the next quarter with whoever had the arrow in the first place, which is Team A....

....Except the officials in this case went with Team B. So either they made a mistake or the table corrected an arrow mistake during the intermission. Since you said that Team A had the arrow to start the 3rd, it could be that the table and officials realized that there had been no uses of the arrow during the 3rd quarter and therefore the arrow was wrong. This happens all the time in sub-varsity contests with inexperienced table personnel. It's why I always alternate a spare whistle in my pockets. That's right; I have a possession arrow in my pants.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

It's why I always alternate a spare whistle in my pockets. That's right; I have a possession arrow in my pants.

That is a practice appropriate for MS officials. I would suggest that you discard it and just look at the arrow on the table after every AP throw-in to confirm that it is properly switched.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That is a practice appropriate for MS officials.

And apparently a couple D1 officials I have seen on tv recently.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

And apparently a couple D1 officials I have seen on tv recently.

Really? You are saying that officials with access to a courtside video monitor and play-by-play technology are using a whistle in their pockets to track AP?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Really? You are saying that officials with access to a courtside video monitor and play-by-play technology are using a whistle in their pockets to track AP?

Yes. I guess some habits die hard.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That is a practice appropriate for MS officials.

Damn right. Our Catholic middle school games don't even have an arrow at the table. Never had. They leave it up to the officials to keep track, and there are a lot of held balls in a middle school game, especially a girls middle school game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by finqb13

I'm not a bb official, but was asked about this instance. Buzzer goes off at the end of the 3rd quarter and the official calls for a jump ball. Arrow says team A. Teams go to benches and come back out for the 4th and team b is awarded possession of the ball. Team A got the throw in for the 3rd quarter. The argument was why didn't team A get the throw in for the 4th quarter after the official called a jump ball? Thank you.

This is how it should be. As others have noted, the official putting his thumbs in the air does not always result in the switching of the arrow. There are a lot of situations where a held ball can be ruled and the arrow would not switch.