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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:28am
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Box out or no call? (Video)



It took me a long time to find this video. Now the IHSA thankfully put on many of their State Final games.

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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:39am
AremRed
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Foul on white #42 for the undercut.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:49am
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Foul on white. He pushed the player towards the basket while the shot was up then undercut him when he tried to jump for the rebound by bending over and backing under the red player. It is borderline intentional (F1). No play on the ball at all and created a dangerous situation....a non-basketball play.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Jan 27, 2015 at 02:51am.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:00pm
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For me, in order to call a foul on a player for undercutting an opponent, I need to see a player jumping mostly vertically and the other player moving into his opponent's space. This is not what happened here.

Red #32 jumped into White #42. White #42 ducked in an attempt to avoid being contacted. For me, Red #32 is responsible for any contact that may occur, but in this case I believe the contact was incidental. No foul.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:03pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Foul on white #42 for the undercut.
Yep.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:12pm
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The red player appears to jump backwards... not straight up/vertical. And when coming down the white player landed on the red player, and the red player bent over... for whatever reason. So it looks like no-call. Although, the white player was pushing the red player under the basket while the ball was in the air.

However, I can see how the white player may have been pushing still while the red player jumped, thus making it look like the red player jumped backwards and not vertically.

I honestly can't tell. Guess you had to be there.

Last edited by BryanV21; Tue Jan 27, 2015 at 01:14pm.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:14pm
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LR, look at the feet of white #42. When the ball is shot and first caroms off the rim, his left foot is center lane. As he makes contact, he swings it all the way out toward the lane line which puts his butt under an airborne player. This is an undercut. Foul on white #42.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:16pm
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Originally Posted by walt View Post
LR, look at the feet of white #42. When the ball is shot and first caroms off the rim, his left foot is center lane. As he makes contact, he swings it all the way out toward the lane line which puts his butt under an airborne player. This is an undercut. Foul on white #42.
Good catch. I didn't see that until you pointed out his foot movement.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:40pm
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+1 foul.
I can see why the refs passed on it though as the commentators are saying.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:02pm
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Originally Posted by La Rikardo View Post
For me, in order to call a foul on a player for undercutting an opponent, I need to see a player jumping mostly vertically and the other player moving into his opponent's space. This is not what happened here.

Red #32 jumped into White #42. White #42 ducked in an attempt to avoid being contacted. For me, Red #32 is responsible for any contact that may occur, but in this case I believe the contact was incidental. No foul.
For me, to call a foul on a player for undercutting, I need to see the opponent get undercut. Red may not be completely vertical in a labratory, but it's close enough in nature. I'm certainly not going to let white get away with the push and then the undercut.

I'm with Camron on this, I'd consider, but not likely go with, an intentional foul. White's only intent here is to undercut red.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:08pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
For me, to call a foul on a player for undercutting, I need to see the opponent get undercut. Red may not be completely vertical in a labratory, but it's close enough in nature. I'm certainly not going to let white get away with the push and then the undercut.

I'm with Camron on this, I'd consider, but not likely go with, an intentional foul. White's only intent here is to undercut red.
I would not consider going intentional here but agree on everything else.

This is a clear undercut and illegal displacement here. I dont understand why we would require a player to jump perfectly straight when another player is illegally taking his entire lower body out from under him.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:12pm
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I would not consider going intentional here but agree on everything else.

This is a clear undercut and illegal displacement here. I dont understand why we would require a player to jump perfectly straight when another player is illegally taking his entire lower body out from under him.
I think if he did it again, I'd go with the intentional.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:13pm
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I've got a foul for an undercut on white.

What I would have liked to have seen is the positioning of the officials in the play and see if they were in proper position to see this rebounding action. This seems like it'd be a pretty easy get for the slot to get.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:19pm
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Originally Posted by La Rikardo View Post
For me, in order to call a foul on a player for undercutting an opponent, I need to see a player jumping mostly vertically and the other player moving into his opponent's space. This is not what happened here.

Red #32 jumped into White #42. White #42 ducked in an attempt to avoid being contacted. For me, Red #32 is responsible for any contact that may occur, but in this case I believe the contact was incidental. No foul.
#42 bent over then proceeded to back himself underneath #32. That is a bush league play at best. He wasn't avoiding contact, he was being a troublemaker.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Jan 27, 2015 at 02:24pm.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:42pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I think if he did it again, I'd go with the intentional.
I can go along with that.

Its clearly a foul but I see it more as a poorly executed, and illegal, attempt to box out. I don't see it as the nefarious act you and Cameron are suggesting.
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