Traveling Violation - Coaching Points (VIDEO)

[frezer11]

Looks legal to me, but to answer your question about why it's not consistently called one way or another? It's really close. The fact that we have a slow-mo on the play and the forum is still split is proof of that. As some others have indicated, if he gathers with one foot still on the ground, even if it's just his toe as he is leaping, then he can't land 1-2. If he gathers in the air, he's all set. So if you want to minimize (though not eliminate) the times it is called a travel, the coaching point would be to try to gather the ball just a split second later, so that it is a little clearer to officials that he is grabbing the ball with both hands while in the air, rather than making them make a close-call decision.

[Sunnyboy]

Travel, but close to legal.
1. At 2 second point of video (in real time) and 8 second point in slow motion, dribbler ends dribble while foot is on the floor. Right foot becomes pivot foot.
2. Player leaps, causing pivot foot to leave the floor.
3. Pivot foot lands before the ball is passed (or shot); resulting in travel.

Had the ball been gathered to end dribble a half second later, after the leap, no pivot foot would be established until he lands. Legal play.

That is how I see it anyway.

[crosscountry55]

I'm joining the no travel club because I think the dribble ended post-leap. But yeah, it's very close. Hard to tell with this camera angle. Probably hard for the officials, too. This was a 2-person game, and the trail wasn't even in the picture, meaning he was probably too high and not in good position to see the play (so he guessed...a cardinal sin). If he's lower, or if this is a 3-person game and there's a reliable C accepting this play, the officials probably get a much better look. And even then, I'm not sure they'd have enough evidence to call a travel here in real time.

At a recent association meeting in my neck of the woods, leadership noted that they were unhappy with the amount of non-travels being called travels. If anything, they'd rather we err on the side of travels not being called if we're not sure. So I'd probably let this go. It's also probably why 90% of officials in the OPs area do as well.

[ref3808]

I had to watch it a few times trying to see when he gathers the ball. Looks like a travel in the video for reasons already posted.

As to it only be called some of the time I would suggest that perhaps he is gathering at different times even though he's trying to execute the same move.

Also, as officials, we try not to guess. I had a game today where I thought it likely that the player had travelled, but I wasn't sure so I passed on it. Even talked about it with my partner who happened to get a look at it as well. With this move I think officials may be in that situation.

[JeffM]

From this angle, it is difficult to judge precisely when he has gathered, and therefore, whether his right foot was still on the floor when he gathered.

It would be even more difficult in a game unless you are using a three-man crew with the play coming towards the C.

During a game, I would pass on it unless I was sure that it was a travel. I woiuldn't doubt my partner if he/she called it and I wouldn't have the benefit of seeing it from their angle.

There are a lot of you tube videos on how to execute the jump stop. The keys are to (1) gather in the air and (2) land simultaneously on both feet. If either of those occurs, the move in the video is legal. If they both occur, either foot can then be the pivot foot and he can take one more step.

From a coaching standpoint, can you live with it being called 10% of the time? If not, then he shouldn't use that move until he can execute it correctly all of the time. I suspect you can live with it since you probably have to live with other turnovers and missed shots.

He could also show the move several times in warmups where the officials might be observing the players. If the officials see him perform the move correctly in warmups, they may be less inclined to call it in a game. However, this could backfire if they see him perform the move incorrectly before the game. During warmups, the officials are doing more than just watching to see if anyone dunks.

My opinion is that players "have gathered" later in the move than when many fans think it occurs. I think fans consider one hand contacting the ball after the last dribble to mean that the player has gathered it.

[ccrroo]

Thanks for the feedback on the coaching points. Certainly some things I can work with him on.

It being called about 10% is certainly manageable. This one particular game, it was probably called 80% of the time (I think 4 out 5 times) so I was looking for a way to help (and better understand myself).

This is 7th grade Catholic School league with 2 man crews.

Thanks again.

I would wager those saying the player had gathered the ball with his right foot on the floor paused the video before coming to that conclusion.

[deecee]

This is very close. I have a general rule with travels, if I'm not 100% sure I don't call it. The faster and more athletic the game gets the tougher and tougher travels get. If you need multiple replays to tell I'm perfectly fine with not having a whistle.

[Raymond]

I needed 1 time to see. So did the Slot.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I needed 1 time to see. So did the Slot.

I posted what I did above without looking at the video.

I watched the video. That one isn't even that close, IMO.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

This is very close. I have a general rule with travels, if I'm not 100% sure I don't call it. The faster and more athletic the game gets the tougher and tougher travels get. If you need multiple replays to tell I'm perfectly fine with not having a whistle.

Agreed. My only point is that it is or is not a travel based simply on the action that occurs whether we can or can not tell at full speed or even in slow motion. What video can or does reveal doesn't change reality, it only make reality known, sometimes.

If it is so close it takes slo-mo to tell it was a travel, I would not tag the official with an INC, but it was still a travel, just one that was not possible to see at game speed.

[walt]

I am in the it's really close camp and I think that is why you are getting the differing calls. It is all in the judgment of the official as to when he actually gathers the ball. That being said, if I am not sure, and have to slow it down that much and I am still not sure, I ain't guessing and we are playing on.

[Kansas Ref]

This is the classic "jump stop" offensive move. No dragging of the pivot once the ball had been gathered and the dribble stopped --player instaneously stopped.

Refs who call this a travel are guilty of one of the cardinal rules of officiating: "inserting themselves into the game". I have nothing on this play.

Message to the Coach: there is really nothing you can do to help your player to avoid the possiblilty that 1 out of 20 times he will be whistled for a "travel" when this move is executed. As evidenced by the variance of opinion within this thread of experienced refs there is no consensus; however, most would pass on this call and let the offensive possesion continue.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

This is the classic "jump stop" offensive move. No dragging of the pivot once the ball had been gathered and the dribble stopped --player instaneously stopped.

You're saying the gather took place while the player had both feet off the floor?

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Refs who call this a travel are guilty of one of the cardinal rules of officiating: "inserting themselves into the game". I have nothing on this play.

What are you talking about, we already *ARE* inserted into the game, to make make sure it's run according to the rules. Of course we shouldn't unnecessarily become a spectacle, but this is an empty saying, signifying nothing.

As evidenced, reasonable, educated officials can have a difference of opinion and judgment, quite validly. But to dismiss one side with whom you disagree with such a trite cliche is frankly condescending and simplistic.