The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 24, 2015, 04:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
Michigan State/Nebraska Flagrant 2 (Video)

16:17 first half ESPN. Easy call after review-intentional elbow to the head.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 24, 2015, 04:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 174
I thought college men's was POI and not half court for the throw in. I am just a lowly high school official........
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 24, 2015, 09:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfan1981 View Post
I thought college men's was POI and not half court for the throw in. I am just a lowly high school official........
I didn't see the play, but it's not if the ball is live. Live ball = Flagrant 2 Personal, which is basically assessed the same as a Flagrant Personal in NFHS: fouler is disqualified, two shots to the offended player, ball at spot nearest the foul to the offended team.

If the ball was dead, it's a Flagrant 2 Technical. Fouler is disqualified (and I believe ejected?), two shots to the team member of the coach's choosing, and ball to the offended team at the division line on either side of the table. The same result applies to a contact dead ball technical except without the disqualification. Most other NCAA technical foul penalties do use the POI, but not these two more serious infractions.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 02:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 View Post
16:17 first half ESPN. Easy call after review-intentional elbow to the head.
The officials took way too long at the monitor. I'm also just a lowly high school official but I could see it the first time that it should be an ejection. I love watchESPN app.
__________________
If you ain't first, you're LAST!!!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 08:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,613
I found a Vine clip of the play. Look how Pitchford turns his head left toward the endline right before the elbow. I'm pretty sure he was looking to see if an official was there. Didn't see one, and then he winds up.

Completely classless. Very warranted ejection.

I could only see what I think was the C near side in the clip. Looked like he was coming down from T and wasn't looking through the lane when the elbow flew. I didn't see the L, so either he was still rotating or the crew was out of position.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 08:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 121
Longer clip

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
I found a Vine clip of the play. Look how Pitchford turns his head left toward the endline right before the elbow. I'm pretty sure he was looking to see if an official was there. Didn't see one, and then he winds up.

Completely classless. Very warranted ejection.

I could only see what I think was the C near side in the clip. Looked like he was coming down from T and wasn't looking through the lane when the elbow flew. I didn't see the L, so either he was still rotating or the crew was out of position.
Find a longer clip. L was on he play and had a foul when it happened. Hypothesis was the Indiana player was looking back at the L hoping for a team-control foul on the big guy. When he didn't get it, he threw the elbow. L called it right away.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 08:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefCT View Post
Find a longer clip. L was on he play and had a foul when it happened. Hypothesis was the Indiana player was looking back at the L hoping for a team-control foul on the big guy. When he didn't get it, he threw the elbow. L called it right away.
Ok. Yeah, the Vine clip was a pretty narrow frame. That hypothesis makes more sense. It also makes Pitchford's foul more stupid.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 11:37am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 11:44am
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,570
I've got a flagrant 1. The reason the player turns his head is cuz his arm is being locked and he's wondering why the hell the official is not seeing it. I think his subsequent action warrants a flagrant 1 because I believe the contact is a result of trying to get his arm loose, not a premeditated action. And yes I know those words are not found in the F2 language. If you want to go F2 then eject the offensive player too for initiating an action which lead to 'fighting'.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 11:52am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I've got a flagrant 1. The reason the player turns his head is cuz his arm is being locked and he's wondering why the hell the official is not seeing it. I think his subsequent action warrants a flagrant 1 because I believe the contact is a result of trying to get his arm loose, not a premeditated action. And yes I know those words are not found in the F2 language. If you want to go F2 then eject the offensive player too for initiating an action which lead to 'fighting'.
There is absolutely no way that the offensive player gets an F2 on this play. At best, his actions rise to the level of common foul. There is no rule set that will eject a player for committing a common foul and having the opponent react with an ejectionable action.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 11:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
The subsequent throw-in should have been on the endline, nearest to where the foul occurred as this was a personal foul, not a technical foul. That was a brain fart for the crew.

But that's an easy flagrant 2.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 12:01pm
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
There is absolutely no way that the offensive player gets an F2 on this play. At best, his actions rise to the level of common foul. There is no rule set that will eject a player for committing a common foul and having the opponent react with an ejectionable action.
I agree with you, just trying to emphasize my point that I would go F1 here. Although I have seen officials apply NCAA 10-5-4 to this situation in the past...
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 25, 2015, 05:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
There is absolutely no way that the offensive player gets an F2 on this play. At best, his actions rise to the level of common foul. There is no rule set that will eject a player for committing a common foul and having the opponent react with an ejectionable action.
Absolutely. And no way this is F1. Arm lock or not, called or not, that wind up and connection was savage and violent. Positively F2. If anything I think we as officials are always looking for certainty in the level of penalty, which is why, especially with monitor reviews, we tend to err on the side of the lesser penalty if we're not sure. Suffice to say the crew was sure on this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 View Post
The subsequent throw-in should have been on the endline, nearest to where the foul occurred as this was a personal foul, not a technical foul. That was a brain fart for the crew.
Yeah, but a big one. An inbound in that situation right under the basket gives a big and intended advantage to MSU as part of the penalty. You just can't brain fart there. That's too bad they made that mistake.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Michigan State at Maryland Block/Charge (Video) bainsey Basketball 5 Mon Jan 19, 2015 03:18pm
Florida State/Nebraska blarge (Video) bballref3966 Basketball 28 Thu Dec 04, 2014 04:22pm
Duke v Michigan State Block/Charge (Video) jeremy341a Basketball 30 Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:26pm
Duke/Michigan State Pass and Crash (Video) SC Official Basketball 18 Wed Nov 19, 2014 03:00pm
Michigan State/Ohio State video request x2 9(Clips Added) zm1283 Basketball 7 Thu Jan 09, 2014 04:55pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1