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It sounds as if it has been determined that the player began as a shooter and then when the ball was stripped (and it was clear it wasn't going in the hoop) the player became a non-shooter.
Given that, it would be a common foul. Now, same scenario however ball is hit out of shooter's hand but still goes towards the hoop (meaning it has a chance to go in the hoop). Does that make our player an airborne shooter still when he gets his legs clipped and thus 2 FT's would be awarded if the ball does not enter the hoop? |
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I don't mean to hijack the thread with the following question, but would it change your ruling if A1 was stripped by B1 after becoming airborne, subsequently to have his legs taken out from under him while still airborne by B2 who is diving for the loose ball? That's what the play I was making the argument for A1 being an airborne shooter. |
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But I don't think it changes the ruling. Once the ball is out of his hands the try has ended and the ensuing foul is common regardless of the airborne status of the player. They are going after a loose ball and it's essentially the same as if the defender went through the legs of a player trying to catch a pass. |
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However, if he left the floor before the strip, wouldn't he then be an airborne shooter? Or, is a strip sufficiently different from a block that he hasn't released the ball on a try? |
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4-1-1: "An airborne shooter is a player who has released the ball on a try for a goal or has tapped the ball and has not returned to the floor."
4-23-5b: "Guarding a moving opponent without the ball: The guard must give the opponent the time and/or distance to avoid contact." By my reading, A1 is not an airborne shooter, as he did not release the ball on a try for goal; the ball was stripped by B2 before A1 was able to release the ball on a try. However, all Team B players must give A1 time and/or distance to avoid contact. If A1 is caused to fall by a Team B player (as opposed to a Team A player who might dive in an attempt to secure the loose ball), that player is guilty of a common foul. Also note that since the ball was never in flight on a try for goal, Team A will continue to have team control until a Team B player secures control of the ball or the ball becomes dead. Any common foul committed by a Team A player until that time will be a team-control foul. |
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I do not see how someone can launch themselves into anyone either. It sounds like an incidental contact at best. Players fall over each other all the time in loose balls and that is what it sounds like.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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I don't think it's a question of a foul or not. Incidental contact may or may not be a foul depending on the situation and I truly do appreciate hustle plays as it sounds the OP has described. None the less, however, from this description B2 has disrupted the balance of an airborne A1 causing A1 to fall to the floor and creating a disadvantage. To me that should be a straightforward call with player safety in mind. The real question is when did A1 become airborne for the try for goal? The wording of "As he gathers and starts to elevate" tells me he was not airborne at the time of the ball being knocked away, therefore not a shooter while A1 was airborne. Awarding Free Throws based on this IMO would be incorrect (unless as previously stated in a bonus/penalty situation.) |
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Not any different really, than a shooter who changes his mind and passes the ball.
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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I have been convinced that this could not be a shooting foul. I believe I was reading too much into it. The answer is usually very simple.
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I appreciate the discussion. Thanks to all who have contributed. |
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If, however, a player leaves the floor in an apparent attempt to shoot and gets stripped of the ball before he releases the try, then I think he was an airborne shooter briefly. Not that it matters, though. If he'd been fouled before the ball was stripped, this discussion wouldn't have happened.
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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Edit: Here is the Interp. 2003-04 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS SITUATION 5: At the top of the key, A1 beats B1 off the dribble, reaches the free-throw line, and pulls up for a jump shot. At the apex of the jump and before the ball is released, B2 comes from the side and swats the ball out of A1’s hands. The ball goes behind A1, deflects off A2 and into the backcourt, where A3 is the first to touch it. RULING: A backcourt violation shall be called. Team control had continued for Team A because the try ended before the ball was in flight. (4-12-3a; 4-40-3,4; 9-9-1) Last edited by Nevadaref; Sat Jan 24, 2015 at 04:28am. |
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