Dunk and Hang on Rim (Video)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

If I were still officiating at the collegiate level, I probably (99%) not call this a TF. BUT!! At the H.S. level this is a video casebook play of a TF for hanging on the rim.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

At the H.S. level this is a video casebook play of a TF for hanging on the rim.

You're just envious because you can't jump high enough to touch the rim any more. How come the players stay the same age, and we keep getting older? It just doesn't seem fair.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You're just envious because you can't jump high enough to touch the rim any more. How come the players stay the same age, and we keep getting older? It just doesn't seem fair.

Not only that, they keep getting faster and quicker.

MTD, Sr.

[Freddy]

Nyet

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Nyet

Freddy: Please go to your Official Forum Member Profile page, and under "Language", please uncheck "Russian", and check "English".

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

If I were still officiating at the collegiate level, I probably (99%) not call this a TF. BUT!! At the H.S. level this is a video casebook play of a TF for hanging on the rim.

MTD, Sr.

This is closer to a video casebook of when NOT to have a TF in this situation.

I had a similar play the other week where a kid dunks the ball with the same momentum as in the video. He was unable, or unwilling to continue hanging on the rim and ended up falling parallel to the floor. Fortunately, he was not seriously hurt but he easily could have been.

As officials we should err on the side of allowing the player to protect themselves. If he continues hanging on the rim once he gets back into a safer landing position then ring him up. In this video he lets go.

I don't think it's even close to a T in real time. In super slow mo, sure it looks like it could have been something but these plays aren't played or officiated in super slow mo.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

This is closer to a video casebook of when NOT to have a TF in this situation.

I had a similar play the other week where a kid dunks the ball with the same momentum as in the video. He was unable, or unwilling to continue hanging on the rim and ended up falling parallel to the floor. Fortunately, he was not seriously hurt but he easily could have been.

As officials we should err on the side of allowing the player to protect themselves. If he continues hanging on the rim once he gets back into a safer landing position then ring him up. In this video he lets go.

I don't think it's even close to a T in real time. In super slow mo, sure it looks like it could have been something but these plays aren't played or officiated in super slow mo.

Agree. I think you have to consider how the ball was dunked, and more specifically, what the player's speed was when the dunk happened. A dunk from right under the hoop better let go quick, or it's getting a T from me, but if they have a running start like in the video, letting go too early can be pretty unsafe

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I know that I am one of the "bald old geezers" (I probably the only bald one) on this Forum and I am only 5'-09". But I do have some perspective on H.S. players that can dunk. I was one of two 5'-09" point guards on a eight man H.S. varsity basketball team (the other six players were between 6'-04" and 6'-09", and each and everyone of them could dunk with the best of them and this was in the late 1960's.

I am also believe that even players with great athletic ability must play within their ability. Case in point: B1 has a LGP against A1 while standing directly underneath Team A's Basket; A1 goes airborne and charges into B1 after releasing the ball for a FGA and before he returns to the Court. We know that players and coaches (and too many officials for that matter) at both the H.S. and college levels have a mistaken belief that in this situation A1 has the right to return to the Court without blocking his way, and we know that the reason that rule is written such that A1 is guilty of charging is that A1 cannot just drive to the basket willy nilly (I love that technical term) and expect that all of the defenders should get out of his way. In other words, A1 must control his body in a matter that allows him to play within the rules.

W5 in the video had not defenders in front of him and made a poor decision as to what type of FGA to attempt. While the NFHS and NCAA Rules are the same for this type of play, we must be more cognizant of how this rule needs to be applied at the H.S. level. While I am not a mind reader I have no doubt that this was not the first time that W5 had ever dunked a basketball and could have easily dunked the ball without hanging on the rim and especially doing a pull up on the rim.

I know that the fans want to see the players dunk the ball and I as an official enjoy seeing a player, legally, dunk the ball in my games, BUT, our first responsibility is the safety of the players, W5 knew how to dunk the ball and had no on under him, and yet he choose to grab the rim and the execute a pull up. No brainer: TF. Let the fans boo, and the his HC complain, but maybe the next time he won't be so lucky and when he does his chin up the Backboard will shatter and the basket apparatus will collapse as in https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ri-2015-a.html.

MTD, Sr.

[VaTerp]

MTD, Cool story bro..........

But none of that changes that the player is allowed to protect himself after legally dunking the ball.

There is a defender in the play who could have decided to jump when W5 begins to take off. He had a lot of momentum going toward the basket and used the rim to put himself in a safe landing position after legally dunking the ball.

You are essentially saying you want to penalize him because you think he should have slowed himself down before he dunked.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

... that the player is allowed to protect himself after legally dunking the ball.

... and that there is absolutely no requirement that there be a defender anywhere near the dunker. That part if the rule was deleted back in the later part of the twentieth century.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by APG

Would the hang be enough for you to give a T?

Not even a question. Had he let go earlier he would've gotten hurt. Person who calls that a T never dunked a ball in his life. I saw nothing to warrant a T

[Rich]

Not a chance.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

Not even a question. Had he let go earlier he would've gotten hurt. Person who calls that a T never dunked a ball in his life. I saw nothing to warrant a T

Hyperbole is dangerous.

It's not neccessary to grab the rim, or swing from it or do a pull-up, at any speed, while dunking the ball. When the ball is released, the shooter's head is approx. 8'10" off the floor, and his body is close to vertical. He decides to grab the rim, and pulls himself up, while pulling the rim downward, and he raises his body another 12+ inches, while swinging to a near horizontal position. It was all for show, and the show started long before this game, when he and the teammate who fed him the ball off of the backboard, practiced this move.

It's worthy of a T in NFHS, in my judgement. Oh, and yes, I've dunked a ball quite a few times . . .

[La Rikardo]

This is not a technical foul.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

Not even a question. Had he let go earlier he would've gotten hurt. Person who calls that a T never dunked a ball in his life. I saw nothing to warrant a T

I have made this statement before. Folks act as if your body will just magically stop going forward after running full speed just because the balls goes through the basket.

There is a big difference between dunking the ball off 2 feet, and dunking off 1 foot while going at a high speed.

Some refs are just looking for "got ya" violations.