TO request when you have no timeouts

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

You should as it's a required duty of an official.

It is required for the scorekeeper to inform the coach through us. It is not required for us to ever find out what the timeout situation is for their team. This is not football, we do not keep track of that situation ourselves.

This is clearly stated in Rule 2-11-6.

It is not our duty, it is the scorer's duty. If they do not tell us anything, I do not ask. And I repeat, they already know. Now if they ask me while I am near their huddle (which is very rare) I will find out for them to be sure, but not something I do on my own. And it has worked that way all these years, I do not see any reason to do anything different. I want to stay away from benches as much as possible.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is required for the scorekeeper to inform the coach through us. It is not required for us to ever find out what the timeout situation is for their team. This is not football, we do not keep track of that situation ourselves.

This is clearly stated in Rule 2-11-6.

It is not our duty, it is the scorer's duty. If they do not tell us anything, I do not ask. And I repeat, they already know. Now if they ask me while I am near their huddle (which is very rare) I will find out for them to be sure, but not something I do on my own. And it has worked that way all these years, I do not see any reason to do anything different. I want to stay away from benches as much as possible.

Peace

I'm sorry, you're wrong. It is our duty. 2-7-11 "Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out." is an officials' general duty.

Yes, they already know (or should anyways). That doesn't relieve us of our duty to inform them.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rob1968:

If he really wants to know how many TOs his team has he can have an AC ascertain that information during a TO.



MTD, Sr.

So the coach doesn't know how many timeouts they have left or are uncertain. They know they have at least one because you haven't told him they have none. Your reccomendation is that he call a timeout and have the AC go find out now?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm sorry, you're wrong. It is our duty. 2-7-11 "Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out." is an officials' general duty.

Yes, they already know (or should anyways). That doesn't relieve us of our duty to inform them.

Then how are you going to know? Do you keep track with a pad in your pocket? Do you go buy the scoreboard if that information is on the scoreboard (like the possession arrow)?

This is not about being right, how are you going to even know what their timeout situation is in the first place?

If you want to go spending your time at the table, be my guest. I am not doing that and I think I am OK doing what I have been doing. No one cares about this but guys like you. Never had a single supervisor care and even had people suggest we have to be careful with what we tell coaches as if that information is wrong, who do you think they are going to claim told them the wrong information if we are constantly telling them stuff?

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then how are you going to know? Do you keep track with a pad in your pocket? Do you go buy the scoreboard if that information is on the scoreboard (like the possession arrow)?

This is not about being right, how are you going to even know what their timeout situation is in the first place?

If you want to go spending your time at the table, be my guest. I am not doing that and I think I am OK doing what I have been doing. No one cares about this but guys like you. Never had a single supervisor care and even had people suggest we have to be careful with what we tell coaches as if that information is wrong, who do you think they are going to claim told them the wrong information if we are constantly telling them stuff?

Peace

I know because when I report the timeout the scorer holds up a fist to let me know the team is now out. When the scorer does that, I relay it to the coach after the time-out, because that's what we're supposed to do. It doesn't involve spending any time at the table, guessing, or keeping track of the time-out situation.

We're not constantly telling the coaches stuff. At most, you tell a coach once per game he's out of time-outs.

I'm continually amazed at the amount of things we're required to do by rule that you can't be bothered with.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

This is overstating it. By rule, there is one time we must inform the coach how many time-outs are left. The rules are silent as to whether we should or should not indicate the number remaining in other circumstances.

..

Overstated what? The rule tells us the only time we are required to. Where did I say the rules forbid anything else?

Why do officials feel the need to interject themselves into that portion of the game needlessly? Let the AC's do their job.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Overstated what? The rule tells us the only time we are required to. Where did I say the rules forbid anything else?

Right here:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

By rule it's the ONLY time we should notify the coaches how many time-outs they have.

It gives the one time we must notify. You are incorrectly extending it to only time we should notify. Those are different.

Why do officials feel the need to interject themselves into that portion of the game needlessly? Let the AC's do their job.

I don't know. I agree we shouldn't but that's different from saying the rules give instruction on the issue.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Right here:



It gives the one time we must notify. You are incorrectly extending it to only time we should notify. Those are different.



I don't know. I agree we shouldn't but that's different from saying the rules give instruction on the issue.

You and I obviously do not comprehend the English language the same way.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Right here:



It gives the one time we must notify. You are incorrectly extending it to only time we should notify. .

You are confusing the words "should" and "may."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I know because when I report the timeout the scorer holds up a fist to let me know the team is now out. When the scorer does that, I relay it to the coach after the time-out, because that's what we're supposed to do. It doesn't involve spending any time at the table, guessing, or keeping track of the time-out situation.

We're not constantly telling the coaches stuff. At most, you tell a coach once per game he's out of time-outs.

I'm continually amazed at the amount of things we're required to do by rule that you can't be bothered with.

First of all I do not work for you or with you, so what I might do might be different where you work. Most of what we are talking about is customs from the place you live and work. Just like the rules state (I will look this up for the exact location) of what we do with timing mistakes. I believe only the Referee can correct such mistakes, but in practice no one I have ever seen puts that on the Referee alone. Maybe in your area this is something that would be a big deal, where I work they want the mistake corrected. And again, what I am doing must be working just fine. Never had anyone care if we tell the coach but usually some rookie that read the rulebook for the first time and then wants to be stringent on these things when they will soon realize that everyone already knows. No coach cares if we tell them and and if we give a T, they should have known better. Life it too short to worry about these things. If feel you have to, then so be it. Rules also say we must wear a shirt with black and white stripes, and I see guys all over the country wearing grey and other colors that do not fit that rule either. And in two situations over the season or Christmas Tournaments I wore a different color shirt for two different tournaments (one Purple and the other Red). Life went on where we were. So keep up the good work with that rulebook. Hope that helps you in these situations get it right.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then how are you going to know? Do you keep track with a pad in your pocket?

The scorekeeper informs you, and then you inform the head coach. It's easy peasy lemon squeezy.

It's in the rulebook, so we shall do it.

2-11 The scorer shall: Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and
when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is
granted its final allotted charged time-out.

2-7-11: The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This includes: Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out.

[JRutledge]

Again, a lot of things are in the rulebook, it does not mean that everything done is adjudicated the exact same. And when we all wear the same striped shirt, then we can worry about what is in the rulebook to that detail.

Peace

[Kansas Ref]

When coaches ask me,"hey ref how many timeouts I got left?"
Even when I know the number, I always say "coach, please verify with the Table Personnel."
I do this because I'm not the secretary, I'm the arbiter of the contest. Even if I know the number of timeouts, I remove myself from culpability if they are given "bad" information. I have enough to worry about in applying the rules of play while the action of the contest is occuring. I not a secretary.

[constable]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

I suspect that folks do that as a habit to make sure they are in fact aware when the team gets down to one.

I like knowing how many of each a team has left so I don't look like a fool when I ask the coach what they want. It looks much sharper when they request a timeout and you know they only have 30s left to signal that right away.

To whose who say they would ignore an excessive TO request- stop. You're doing the game a disservice. Unless you're working FIBA. Then we ignore excessive TO requests.

Originally Posted by constable

I like knowing how many of each a team has left so I don't look like a fool when I ask the coach what they want. It looks much sharper when they request a timeout and you know they only have 30s left to signal that right away.

I roll my eyes inside when a partner goes to a table and tries really hard to signal to me how many of each timeout a team has. I don't care. Just tell me when he is down to zero so I can inform the coach. Maybe tell me when a team has only 30's or only full's but I really have more important things to be thinking about.