Definition of "Tights"

[Freddy]

I hate this. But...
Do tights need to be full body? Can tights be only upper body, similar to a long-sleeved undershirt but "tighter"?
Relevant question locally.

[frezer11]

No they don't have to be full body, and yes they can. Undershirts are legal so long as they meet color restrictions. In NCAAW, they MUST be compression.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by frezer11

No they don't have to be full body, and yes they can. Undershirts are legal so long as they meet color restrictions. In NCAAW, they MUST be compression.

I hate this. But...
Can a player with a white jersey wear black upper body only "tights"? To me it looks like a long sleeved shirt and illegal.. To fellow officials who have been allowing it, they are apparently considering it "tights", though only covering the upper body. If considered tights, this falls under 3-5-3, and black under white would be legal. If considered an undershirt, then 3-4-6 applies and black under white would be illegal.
Any further confirmation by rule one way or another on this?
I hate this.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I hate this...I hate this.

Haha, don't we all!! I've been told that "Tights" are lower body only. Anything that covers the upper torso, with or without sleeves, is an undershirt, and therefore, black under white should not be allowed. Sleeves only is obviously something different too, but I would say any type of shirt, compression or not, is an undershirt, NOT tights

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I hate this. But...
Can a player with a white jersey wear black upper body only "tights"? To me it looks like a long sleeved shirt and illegal.. To fellow officials who have been allowing it, they are apparently considering it "tights", though only covering the upper body. If considered tights, this falls under 3-5-3, and black under white would be legal. If considered an undershirt, then 3-4-6 applies and black under white would be illegal.
Any further confirmation by rule one way or another on this?
I hate this.

You are describing an undershirt, not tights.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I hate this. But ...

I hate this too, but somebody has to do it, so here it goes ...

From a previous thread:

2014-15 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES

3-5-3
Art. 3: Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:
a. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions.
b. The sleeves/tights shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform and the same color sleeves/tights shall be worn by teammates.
c. All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color.
d. Meet the logo requirements in 3-6.
Note: In general, a brace is defined as anything that contains hinges and/or straps or an opening over the knee cap.
Rationale: To clarify the rule and give better guidance to what is acceptable.

The committee expanded Rule 3-5-3 by identifying anything worn on the arm and/or leg as a sleeve, except a knee brace. These items, including tights, will now be permitted but must meet the color and logo restrictions in Rule 3-5-3. Previously, this rule permitted only arm sleeves and leg-compression sleeves.

So I went to my dictionary (Noah Webster used to live right down the street from me).

Tights (noun, plural): A snug stretchable garment covering the body from the waist down, designed for general wear by women and girls.

Tights (noun, plural): A piece of clothing that is worn especially by girls, women, and dancers, that fits closely over the feet, legs, and waist, and that is made of a thicker material than pantyhose.

It looks like tights only refers to a lower body garment.

The following situation can legally occur:

A1, with a red jersey, wears a red undershirt underneath his red jersey.

Teammate A2 also has a red jersey, but wears two black arm sleeves, both that go from just below the elbow to the upper shoulder (under the strap of the red jersey).

It may appear that A2 is wearing an illegal undershirt, but he isn't, he's wearing two legal arm sleeves.

Since I don't have X-Ray vision, I'm telling A2 that he "can't participate in the game". Hopefully, A2 will ask me "why not". I will tell him that he's "wearing an illegal undershirt". He will tell me that "it's not an undershirt, but is two sleeves". I'll say, "Sorry, those are legal, you can play". And then he'll say, "No problem (that's the way kid's talk today), and by the way, Mr. BillyMac, you're the best, and the most handsome, official that we've had all season".

You're going to run into the same situation with compression shorts (same color as the uniform shorts) versus calf sleeves (going all the way up to the crotch; black, white, beige, predominate color of the uniform jersey).

I hope that the NFHS simplifies these fashion rules in the off season. I really don't like thinking about what lies down a kid's jersey, or up a kid's shorts, boys, or girls.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Great film, one of Brooks' finest.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Tights (noun, plural): A snug stretchable garment covering the body from the waist down, designed for general wear by women and girls.

Tights (noun, plural): A piece of clothing that is worn especially by girls, women, and dancers,

I just love how specific the definition is that it is a women's article of clothing. Cracks me up, especially when I see the guys wearing them

[BillyMac]

My partner, and I, are watching the junior varsity game before our varsity game. Home team is warming up while wearing shooting shirts. The junior varsity game starts and right away, as soon as the shooting shirts come off, I note that the home team has players wearing undershirts of various colors: white (legal), gray, light blue, and dark blue; under their white jerseys.

I halftime of the junior varsity game I explain to the junior varsity officials that I understand why they didn't catch the problem before the game started (shooting shirts over the uniform) but once the game started they should have addressed this situation. My varsity partner states that it's probably more important to address in a varsity game (I silently disagree) but they probably should have addressed the issue.

Now it's the varsity game. Same shooting shirts. I note that some of the varsity players also played in the junior varsity game. My partner is the referee and asks me during the pregame coach/captain conference if I have anything to add to his pregame. I tell the coaches that I spotted some illegal undershirts in the junior varsity game and that I didn't want to see the same issue in the varsity game. I even specified that the home team could only wear white undershirts under their white uniform jerseys.

We go back to observing the layup lines and my partner goes over to the table to make a final check of the scorebook (we never give technical fouls here for books that aren't ready on time, it's a local "When in Rome" custom). While he's at the table a home player with a white jersey and a dark blue undershirt approaches my partner and asks him question.

We start the game. First substitute for home is the player with the illegal dark blue undershirt. I'm closest to the table and tell the head coach that the substitute can't participate because of the illegal undershirt. Coach loudly replies, "But he (pointing to my partner) told him that he could play with it on". My answer, "No coach, he can't pay with illegal undershirt".

Certainly not a good way to develop rapport with a coach in the beginning minutes of the game. It makes me look like the overly officious official who can interpret every fashion issue in the book but probably can't tell the difference between a block, and a charge, and probably doesn't know if the basketball is stuffed, or inflated.

And, no, I didn't bring it up in our post game meeting. I was pissed, and didn't want to lose my cool.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I just love how specific the definition is that it is a women's article of clothing. Cracks me up, especially when I see the guys wearing them

We have quite a few male officials that wear black tights under their uniform pants. I'm old school, real old school, I wear black briefs over an old fashioned athletic supporter. Too much information? Sorry.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We go back to observing the layup lines and my partner goes over to the table to make a final check of the scorebook (we never give technical fouls here for books that aren't ready on time, it's a local "When in Rome" custom).

I also very much dislike calling a book T, but not to the point where I won't. Just because "that's the way we've always done it" does not make it right. I can't see you being accused of being an overly officiating official if this rule is all but disregarded. Changing the way officials in your area think is difficult, and I understand that, but following the leader is not the right option.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We have quite a few male officials that wear black tights under their uniform pants. I'm old school, real old school, I wear black briefs over an old fashioned athletic supporter. Too much information? Sorry.

Ha, very nice. A guy I've worked with quite a while does the same, and slaps on a latex glove and slathers on the Bengay. Pretty distinct, and pungent smell.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I also very much dislike calling a book T, but not to the point where I won't. Just because "that's the way we've always done it" does not make it right.

Thirty-four years and it's never been called here in my little corner of Connecticut. I'm not going to be the first.

[BryanV21]

It's a shirt that goes under the jersey... hence, an undershirt. I don't care if it's a good old-fashioned cotton t-shirt, a compression shirt, a sleeveless shirt, etc. A shirt is a shirt, and if it's under the jersey it's an undershirt.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

A shirt is a shirt, and if it's under the jersey it's an undershirt.

“Gentlemen, there are times when a cigar is only a cigar!” (Dr. Sigmund Freud)

[Nevadaref]

"Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible"

Notice that the NFHS rule lists lower leg sleeves and tights. There is a reason that tights follows the words lower leg.