shot end?

[bob jenkins]

I would support (I think) a rule change that extended "act of shooting" to include the completion of normal movements associated with a try, including a normal landing by an airborne shooter.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I would support (I think) a rule change that extended "act of shooting" to include the completion of normal movements associated with a try, including a normal landing by an airborne shooter.

How do you define when the normal landing ends?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

going back to that set shot. Player shoots without jumping. Ball is released and from around the head and player's arms go forward, defender hits the player's arms on the follow-through. Offensive player hasn't left floor. To me that is a shooting foul if it happens right after. A foul on the arms for the offensive player natural follow through after releasing the shot still impacts the shot.

The rule regarding when the act of shooting ends, 4-41-1 is according to the natural laws of physics, thus the act of shooting, by rule, ends ". . . when the ball is clearly in flight. . . " It is impossible for the follow through to affect the flight of the ball! The contact on the hand/arm of a set-shooter, after the ball is "clearly in flight" may affect his/her attitude regarding subsequent tries for goal, but it CANNOT affect the flight of the ball! Such contact will, often, be incidental, and not worthy of a foul being assessed, because it causes no unfair advantage/disadvantage.

WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH MAGIC HERE!

The addition to the rule - ". . . and includes the airborne shooter." is a safety issue, it has nothing to do with the flight of the ball, once "the ball is clearly in flight!"

[Kansas Ref]

On occassion a ref may see the defender slide his/her keister into the waist/upper hip area of the jumpshooter in attempt to initiate a box-out-- while the jump shooter is descending from the shot attempt. I have observed this to occur and result in either ankle fracture of said jumpshooter and/or a crack on the head of said defender by elbow of shooter as it strikes the head after the arms complete a follow through.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

...going back to that set shot. Player shoots without jumping. Ball is released and from around the head and player's arms go forward, defender hits the player's arms on the follow-through. Offensive player hasn't left floor. To me that is a shooting foul if it happens right after. ...snip.

Nope, but keep digging your own grave.

You just won't listen.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You just won't listen.

Maybe his speakers aren't working properly?

[mutantducky]

hey they were turned off.

[griblets]

A month ago, I had a similar play on a 3-point shot where the shooter returned to the floor, was fouled on the box out, and I awarded 3 free throws. I knew in my head that I got it wrong, but it took this thread to confirm that to me.

I had a similar play in a game tonight on a 3-point shot, except this time the shot was made and I correctly awarded the ball to the team that made the basket. Even though I was clearly communicating that the basket was good, the foul was after the shot, and that the shooting team gets the ball, everyone in the gym was confused. I don't think they had ever seen it before. Ironically enough, the defensive team's coach was cool as could be about it and it was the coach of the team that made the 3-pointer and got the ball out of bounds that was upset with the call.

Because of the discussion on this thread, I was prepared to get it right this time. I appreciate everyone's input.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

going back to that set shot. Player shoots without jumping. Ball is released and from around the head and player's arms go forward, defender hits the player's arms on the follow-through. Offensive player hasn't left floor. To me that is a shooting foul if it happens right after.

And you'd be 100% wrong. Quit making stuff up. Doing what you're doing is the genesis of inconsistency. If everyone starts modifying the rules to be the way they might like them, we have a horrible mess.

Originally Posted by mutantducky

A foul on the arms for the offensive player natural follow through after releasing the shot still impacts the shot.

Absolutely not. You could chop the shooters arms off with a hatchet and the ball that was already released would be completely unaffected....unless, perhaps, Yoda is in the building.