20 Second disqualification count and FT

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

Question about this. After five seconds a warning horn.
Is it ok for the coach to gather his players over?
I had an issue when the time had run out on Two fts by the opposing team. Shoot the first. Would you just shoot the second one here? Or do you call a delay of game warning if they aren't lined up.

As long as the coach has his sub to the table before that 2nd horn, he can do what he wants. Once the sub gets to the table, get the game going.

Second question. How are they delaying the game? They aren't supposed to be lined up, right? Let the coach talk to them as long as they stay on the court.

[mutantducky]

So if a coach wants to use the time, he should do this.
Have a sub ready but don't send him to the table until 20 seconds. However, if he reports and the coach then calls him over and his players, a semi-on court timeout, are you then going to start the game?


So for the Fts if the coach wants to keep talking to them, just shoot them. The opposing team is shooting. Sounds good to me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

So if a coach wants to use the time, he should do this.
Have a sub ready but don't send him to the table until 20 seconds. However, if he reports and the coach then calls him over and his players, a semi-on court timeout, are you then going to start the game?


So for the Fts if the coach wants to keep talking to them, just shoot them. The opposing team is shooting. Sounds good to me.

These are two separate situations, right?

1. Yes, he can do it, but if he holds the sub he risks that horn going off. That sub needs to be at the table when the horn goes, not on his way, or waiting to go. Coach can use the 20 seconds as he sees fit, but this isn't a TO where we give a bit of cushion at the end.

With the FTs, I'm assuming this is a separate situation with the time expired and FTs to be shot. No one lines up, so B coach can have all 5 players by the bench and start talking. A coach can have the 4 who aren't shooting.

[OKREF]

I'm not shooting any free throws until the defense has 2 players on the bottom spots.

[mutantducky]

If the defense is not lined up for the Fts because the coach has them huddling following the fifth foul. There is time on the clock.
So it appears you give them a delay warning but DO NOT shoot the fts until the D has two lined up.

[SAK]

Sub must report to the table before the warning horn, 15 seconds remaining in any "time out" situation. Coaches may use the entire 20 seconds however they would like however at the conclusion of the time both teams need to be ready to go. Both teams may also use the break to substitute players but all players that are going to substitute must report before the warning horn.

Secondly, the defense is required to have players occupying the first marked lane spaces. The delay of game is that they are not breaking the huddle properly and being ready to play as opposed to not being in the lane space.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SAK

Sub must report to the table before the warning horn, 15 seconds remaining in any "time out" situation. Coaches may use the entire 20 seconds however they would like however at the conclusion of the time both teams need to be ready to go. Both teams may also use the break to substitute players but all players that are going to substitute must report before the warning horn.

Secondly, the defense is required to have players occupying the first marked lane spaces. The delay of game is that they are not breaking the huddle properly and being ready to play as opposed to not being in the lane space.

The sub must report before the 20 second horn. No other subs may enter until that sub has been beckoned in. Reporting before the first horn is not a consideration here, it is not a timeout.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

If the defense is not lined up for the Fts because the coach has them huddling following the fifth foul. There is time on the clock.
So it appears you give them a delay warning but DO NOT shoot the fts until the D has two lined up.

No, this is not a DOG warning, nor is it RPP.

Direct the coach to give you two defenders for the block. If he doesn't comply, call the T and now he won't need defenders on the block.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

No, this is not a DOG warning, nor is it RPP. Direct the coach to give you two defenders for the block. If he doesn't comply, call the T and now he won't need defenders on the block.

10.1.5 SITUATION C: The calling official has reported the foul and proceeds to
his/her proper position for the first of two free throws awarded to A1. B1 and B2
are: (a) huddling in the lane; or (b) two B players are not occupying the first two
marked spaces next to the end line as required. RULING: In (a), if the huddle
delays the officials’ administration, Team B is warned. The warning is recorded by
the scorer and reported to the head coach. If Team B had been previously warned
for delay, a technical foul shall be charged. In (b), Team B will be directed to occupy
the required spaces. If there is delay, a team technical foul shall be charged to
Team B. (4-47)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

If the defense is not lined up for the Fts because the coach has them huddling following the fifth foul. There is time on the clock.
So it appears you give them a delay warning but DO NOT shoot the fts until the D has two lined up.

That is NOT a delay warning situation -- it's an immediate T (well, in practice, you tell the coach you need the two players before you assess the T).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I'm not shooting any free throws until the defense has 2 players on the bottom spots.

Since this is probably not after a timeout, or an intermission, then:

10-1-5: A team shall not:
Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or from being put in
play. See 7-5-1 and 8-1-2 for the resumption-of-play procedure to use after a time-out or the
intermission between quarters. The procedure is used prior to charging a technical foul in
these specific situations.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

So if a coach wants to use the time, he should do this.
Have a sub ready but don't send him to the table until 20 seconds. However, if he reports and the coach then calls him over and his players, a semi-on court timeout, are you then going to start the game?


So for the Fts if the coach wants to keep talking to them, just shoot them. The opposing team is shooting. Sounds good to me.

Repeatedly say "this is not a time-out" and get the team(s) out the huddle. It irritates me that coaches think they are entitled to a free time-out in these situations.

[mutantducky]

Repeatedly say "this is not a time-out" and get the team(s) out the huddle

I've done that. I did it in my last game and got on the coach to get a sub. But it doesn't seem against the rules for a coach to do exactly that, make it an unofficial hurried Timeout. As long as it lasts under 20 seconds. I'd rather see a rule change to outlaw it. I'd like to get rid of the warning horn after five seconds.
Maybe- the Coach has 10 seconds to send a sub to the table. Once the sub is there and is beckoned onto the court, play is ready to begin. This would allow the coach basically no time to do a huddle(by the time the players get to the coach, we would be talking about five seconds at the most) and also could lead to delay of game warnings if the Coach tries to do that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

Repeatedly say "this is not a time-out" and get the team(s) out the huddle

I've done that. I did it in my last game and got on the coach to get a sub. But it doesn't seem against the rules for a coach to do exactly that, make it an unofficial hurried Timeout. As long as it lasts under 20 seconds. .

It's not against the rules. S/He can use the 20 seconds how s/he wants -- many s/he wants to ask the team if they'd rather have player x or player y in the game.

FWIW, IL experimented with a "must replace the DQ'd player 'immediately' " rule a few (5-10) years ago. It worked well, imo.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Adam

As long as the coach has his sub to the table before that 2nd horn, he can do what he wants. Once the sub gets to the table, get the game going.

Second question. How are they delaying the game? They aren't supposed to be lined up, right? Let the coach talk to them as long as they stay on the court.

Unless the 5th foul was a T or an Intentional foul they must have 2 players lined up for any Free Throw attempts.

If their are no Free Throws then give a short chirp of the Whistle and if they are still conferring with the Coach let the ball be in-bounded for the easy bucket.