Disqualification

[Mark Dexter]

NCAA 2-12.8 states that, when a player is disqualified, the timer should sound a warning horn at 15, followed by a final horn at 30 seconds. While it is obviously best to not have to blow the second horn, the timer with whom I was working stated that the horn should never be blown at 30 seconds (of course, he didn't notify the official at 30, either.) Anyone ever hear of this?

[NCAAREF]

"Excuse me Mr. Minor Official...you WILL blow the horn at 30 seconds."

Seriously, never heard of that. I always ask for the horn at 15 and 30.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I agree with NCAAREF, about the Timer's resposibility in this situation. Of course replacing a player who has fouled out is not always a pleasant situation for the parties involved. The NFHS requires horns and 25 and 30 seconds as opposed to the NCAA's 15 and 30. I instruct my timer's to sound the appropriate warning buzzer but only to nod his/her head when the 30 second time limit is reached. The reason being is that I want to be the one as to when to sound the 30 second buzzer because if the player has not reported to the Scorer before the 30 second buzzer. Why? If a the substitute is just starting to make his/her way to the Scorer from his/her spot on the bench and the 30 second buzzer goes off, by rule this is a technical foul charged to the Head Coach. I do not want to be in a position of charging a technical foul that can be avoided by game management. Now having said that, I if that coach has made no effort to get a substitute to the Scorer and all is is doing is trying to make his displeasure about the call known to all mankind, then I will give the signal to the Timer to sound the buzzer and then let the fun begin (technical foul charged to the Head Coach). I can honestly say that in 31 yrs of officiating that I have not had to T a Head Coach in this situation (and knocking on wood, I hope that I do not ever have to do it), but it is these types of situations that Head Coaches just bring upon themselves because they cannot move forward and start thinking about the rest of the game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Of course replacing a player who has fouled out is not always a pleasant situation for the parties involved. The NFHS requires horns and 25 and 30 seconds as opposed to the NCAA's 15 and 30. I instruct my timer's to sound the appropriate warning buzzer but only to nod his/her head when the 30 second time limit is reached.

The NFHS rulebook(R2-12-5) doesn't mention a warning signal at 25 seconds when replacing a disqualified player, only a horn at 30 seconds. Similarly,in the "instructions to timers" posted on the NFHS web site,only a single horn at 30 seconds is mentioned. Is your "25 second warning horn" one of those regional things,Mark,or is there actually a rules basis somewhere for it?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

The NFHS rulebook(R2-12-5) doesn't mention a warning signal at 25 seconds when replacing a disqualified player, only a horn at 30 seconds. Similarly,in the "instructions to timers" posted on the NFHS web site,only a single horn at 30 seconds is mentioned. Is your "25 second warning horn" one of those regional things,Mark,or is there actually a rules basis somewhere for it?

Hmmm...I had understood this to be a minor NCAA/NFHS difference as well. I would be interested in what Mark has to say...

[BigJoe]

I am with Mr. DeNucci on this one. For High School games, I prefer not to have the horn in this situation. You are standing right in front of the table waiting for the sub, you certainly don't need a horn to tell you when the 30 seconds are up. I also detest when the timer gives a horn when you are already waving in a sub as well. The trouble is some kids think that the horn is their signal to go into the game. I tell timers to only blow the horn when we don't see the sub waiting to go into the game.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BigJoe
I also detest when the timer gives a horn when you are already waving in a sub as well. The trouble is some kids think that the horn is their signal to go into the game. I tell timers to only blow the horn when we don't see the sub waiting to go into the game.

I tend to agree with you on this one, but then got some odd looks during my first game in a big (well, at least compared to my high school) college arena when I would withold the horn when a player was already beckoned or a whistle had been sounded. The officials prefered having a horn (even with the associated entering problems) because it lets everyone on the court and in the stands know that we have a sub.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Hmmm...I had understood this to be a minor NCAA/NFHS difference as well. I would be interested in what Mark has to say...

You are absolutely correct. I have been in bed all week with the flu and my thinking has been somewhat fuzzy all week. What I really wanted to say is that I tell the Timer in a H.S. game is to nod his/her head after 25 sec. and I will tell him when to sound the 30 sec. horn.

I am feeling better, and I plan on officiating tomorrow afternoon.

[BigJoe]

Thanks Mark. I never put the crowd into the equation. I just get irritated when the sub is already in the game and the horn sounds. I have worked the clock and there are alot of officials who fail to look at the table for subs. I think that is why my partner and I do such a good job of getting the subs in without a horn.