Wofford/NC State–Gottfried technical foul (Video)

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Adam

Found it.

Case 10.4.1 F

Totally get that reference, and have a similar case play in another book, but again - and this is likely my being overly cerebral about it - but that doesn't necessarily provide a reference of rule or reference by direct follow-up statement in the case play that allows for a direct contradiction of the rule that states the ball does not become dead when an opponent commits a foul after the try has begun. Does what I'm trying to describe make sense? In other words, that case play says "the official should do this," but it doesn't then explain how that's okay or the proper thing to do by rule. One could interpret that case play last sentence to mean that "the official should wait to blow the whistle to assess the foul because the official needs to have game awareness of what's going on because the whistle could disrupt the shooter's concentration on the try."

In other words, the case play says that "this is the way the call should be made," but not that "by rule the whistle for a technical foul against an opponent causes the ball to become dead on a try that's begun."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Totally get that reference, and have a similar case play in another book, but again - and this is likely my being overly cerebral about it - but that doesn't necessarily provide a reference of rule or reference by direct follow-up statement in the case play that allows for a direct contradiction of the rule that states the ball does not become dead when an opponent commits a foul after the try has begun. Does what I'm trying to describe make sense? In other words, that case play says "the official should do this," but it doesn't then explain how that's okay or the proper thing to do by rule. One could interpret that case play last sentence to mean that "the official should wait to blow the whistle to assess the foul because the official needs to have game awareness of what's going on because the whistle could disrupt the shooter's concentration on the try."

In other words, the case play says that "this is the way the call should be made," but not that "by rule the whistle for a technical foul against an opponent causes the ball to become dead on a try that's begun."

A T is treated the same as any other foul in terms of when the ball becomes dead / continutation, etc.

The case play is saying to wait because if A hasn't started the try, B could get an advantage (the "sure thing breakaway" would be lost).

but, if your real question is "am I overthinking this?" then the answer is "yes."

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A T is treated the same as any other foul in terms of when the ball becomes dead / continutation, etc....but, if your real question is "am I overthinking this?" then the answer is "yes."

I appreciate that, Bob.

Back to the beginning, then, doesn't that make this statement technically incorrect? Or am I misreading/misinterpreting what you're saying, here, APG?

Originally Posted by APG

...calling the T when he did took away an open 3. I think you need a more patient whistle here.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I appreciate that, Bob.

Back to the beginning, then, doesn't that make this statement technically incorrect? Or am I misreading/misinterpreting what you're saying, here, APG?

I think bob is saying that the case play should, in this case, be read at face value. It's an unusual situation, and if B's coach is being a dick, there's no need to take away a scoring opportunity for A. Just wait a second or two.

Sure, the rule says the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs, but the case tells us they don't want a scoring opportunity to be taken away.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by APG

Not a fan of the actually timing in calling the T...calling the T when he did took away an open 3. I think you need a more patient whistle here.

I would have waited until the shot and subsequent action from it was finished...then whacked the coach.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Honestly, I do not think he cared. He got tired of his mess and took action. I agree in normal circumstances we should wait, but he had enough.

Peace

While I agree in principle about maybe waiting just a second or too longer, I think Gottfried said something before the Wofford player started to pass the ball which means Hess put air in his whistle before the second Wofford player started to shoot.

MTD, Sr.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Adam

Sure, the rule says the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs, but the case tells us they don't want a scoring opportunity to be taken away.

But...doesn't the rule not say that?

[bob jenkins]

read it this way: The foul occurs when the referee decided s/he's heard enough. The referee shouldn't decide this until the scoring chance is over.

Or -- the book doesn't always say what it means or mean what it says. That's why there is the case book.

(And, yes, I recognize that sometimes all of us take the side of "that's what the rule says" in a discussion.)

If you think it's too confusing, petition for a change.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

But...doesn't the rule not say that?

The case tells us how they want us to apply the rule. The rule was written for most circumstances, and the case addresses the one time they want us to apply it differently.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

While I agree in principle about maybe waiting just a second or too longer, I think Gottfried said something before the Wofford player started to pass the ball which means Hess put air in his whistle before the second Wofford player started to shoot.

MTD, Sr.

That doesn't change how this play, in a perfect world, should have been handled.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by APG

That doesn't change how this play, in a perfect world, should have been handled.

APG:

I am not sure I follow your post.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

APG:

I am not sure I follow your post.

MTD, Sr.

He's saying he'd still prefer to have seen Hess wait a moment before calling the T.