Delay

[phansen]

NFHS

Had warned both teams about getting their players out of the huddle and to be ready to play by the second horn earlier in the game.
A1 is at the free throw line to shoot a two shot foul. Team A requests and is granted a timeout after the first free throw. Second timeout horn sounds and team A has not yet broken their huddle. What are the choices to proceed? Wait? Technical? What if Team A was ready and Team B was not ready after the second horn?

[MD Longhorn]

What's the warning for ... is it like the knight from Monty Python - if they transgress again you will taunt them a second time?

Warn... warn again ... warn again - coaches know your warnings mean nothing.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS

Had warned both teams about getting their players out of the huddle and to be ready to play by the second horn earlier in the game.
A1 is at the free throw line to shoot a two shot foul. Team A requests and is granted a timeout after the first free throw. Second timeout horn sounds and team A has not yet broken their huddle. What are the choices to proceed? Wait? Technical? What if Team A was ready and Team B was not ready after the second horn?

see rule 8 art 2

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

see rule 8 art 2

8-1-2: Following a time-out or intermission, the resumption-of-play
procedure may be used to prevent delay. The administering official will sound the
whistle to indicate play will resume. The ball shall be placed at the disposal of the
thrower or placed on the floor and the count shall begin. Either or both teams may
be charged with a violation. Following a violation by one or both teams, if the
offending team(s) continues to delay, a technical foul shall be ruled.

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in
play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available or following a timeout
or intermission (unless either team is not on the court to start the second
half) as in 7-5-1 and 8-1-2. The procedure results in a violation instead of a
technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

10.1.5 SITUATION A: A1 is fouled by B1 during an unsuccessful try and is
awarded two free throws. Team B requests and is granted a charged 60-second
time-out. Team B disregards the 15-second warning signal and the signal ending
the time-out and is still huddling with their coach at the end of the charged timeout.
RULING: The official shall administer the first free throw using the resumption-
of-play procedure and a violation occurs if it is missed. If two B players are
not in the required position when the official is ready to put the ball in play for the
substitute throw, a delay of game technical foul will be assessed. If the first
attempt is good, the same procedure is used for the second. (9-1-2; 10-1-5b)

Also, if the delay was not after a timeout or an intermission:

10-1-5: A team shall not:Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes
the following and similar acts:
b. Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or
from being put in play. See 7-5-1 and 8-1-2 for the resumption-of-play
procedure to use after a time-out or the intermission between quarters. The
procedure is used prior to charging a technical foul in these specific
situations. PENALTY: (Section 1) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in.
(Arts. 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10) Penalized when they occur.

8.1.1 SITUATION B: B1 fouls A1 during an unsuccessful try for goal. The calling
official has properly reported the foul and is in position for the free throws.
The administering official has given all instructions and signals. Team B is properly
occupying the required spaces, but three teammates of A1 are huddling
inside the lane. RULING: Team A is warned for delay, the scorer records it and it
is reported to the head coach. If Team A commits any delay thereafter in the
game, a team technical foul shall be charged. COMMENT: Since this situation is
not a throw-in or following a time-out or intermission, the resumption-of-play
procedure shall not be used. If the free thrower is not in the semicircle when the
administering official is ready, a technical foul is charged to the free thrower. If
the free thrower is in the semicircle, but does not accept the ball, it shall be placed
on the floor and the count started. (10-1-5d; 10-3-5c)

10.1.5 SITUATION B: The calling official has reported the foul and is ready to
administer the free throw. Free thrower A1 is: (a) huddling with teammates by the
team bench area; or (b) is in the semicircle, but teammates are huddling in the
lane area. RULING: A technical foul for delay by A1 in (a). In (b), Team A is
warned for delay. In (b), if Team A had been warned previously for any delay-of game
situation, a team technical foul would be charged. (10-1-5d; 10-3-5c)

10.1.5 SITUATION C: The calling official has reported the foul and proceeds to
his/her proper position for the first of two free throws awarded to A1. B1 and B2
are: (a) huddling in the lane; or (b) two B players are not occupying the first two
marked spaces next to the end line as required. RULING: In (a), if the huddle
delays the officials’ administration, Team B is warned. The warning is recorded by
the scorer and reported to the head coach. If Team B had been previously warned
for delay, a technical foul shall be charged. In (b), Team B will be directed to occupy
the required spaces. If there is delay, a team technical foul shall be charged to
Team B. (4-47)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS

Had warned both teams about getting their players out of the huddle and to be ready to play by the second horn earlier in the game.
A1 is at the free throw line to shoot a two shot foul. Team A requests and is granted a timeout after the first free throw. Second timeout horn sounds and team A has not yet broken their huddle. What are the choices to proceed? Wait? Technical? What if Team A was ready and Team B was not ready after the second horn?

The ROP procedure is for exactly this situation.

If A is still in the huddle put the ball on the floor. A must call a TO, or violate (either by 10 seconds elapsing or entering the FT semi-circle).

If B is still in the huddle, give the ball to A and indicate a delayed violation on B. Repeat the process if the first shot is good.

Any second delay is a T.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ROP procedure is for exactly this situation.

If A is still in the huddle put the ball on the floor. A must call a TO, or violate (either by 10 seconds elapsing or entering the FT semi-circle).

If B is still in the huddle, give the ball to A and indicate a delayed violation on B. Repeat the process if the first shot is good.

Any second delay is a T.

Clarify for me, in the situation where B isn't occupying the lowest blocks, are they warned for delay on the first shot if it is good? or you just treat it as if nothing happened and then A1 shoots the second. If B isn't in position for the second FT and the FT is good, what is the ruling?

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ROP procedure is for exactly this situation.

If A is still in the huddle put the ball on the floor. A must call a TO, or violate (either by 10 seconds elapsing or entering the FT semi-circle).

If B is still in the huddle, give the ball to A and indicate a delayed violation on B. Repeat the process if the first shot is good.

Any second delay is a T.

Not that I don't believe you, but could you cite the rule for a violation on A1 if they enter the FT circle after the ball is placed on the floor? What is the point of going through all this motion when really the only two options are a violation or a Timeout? Why wouldn't the rules state: If A1 isn't in the Semicircle when the official is ready to administer the FT, a whistle shall be sounded and the coach is given the option for a TO or FT violation.

This would save time I think. As no coach knows the rule well enough to think about going for a TOP or just taking the violation.

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Clarify for me, in the situation where B isn't occupying the lowest blocks, are they warned for delay on the first shot if it is good? or you just treat it as if nothing happened and then A1 shoots the second. If B isn't in position for the second FT and the FT is good, what is the ruling?

BillyMac already posted it above:

10.1.5 SITUATION A: A1 is fouled by B1 during an unsuccessful try and is
awarded two free throws. Team B requests and is granted a charged 60-second time-out. Team B disregards the 15-second warning signal and the signal ending the time-out and is still huddling with their coach at the end of the charged timeout.

RULING: The official shall administer the first free throw using the resumption-of-play procedure and a violation occurs if it is missed. If two B players are not in the required position when the official is ready to put the ball in play for the substitute throw, a delay of game technical foul will be assessed. If the first attempt is good, the same procedure is used for the second. (9-1-2; 10-1-5b)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Not that I don't believe you, but could you cite the rule for a violation on A1 if they enter the FT circle after the ball is placed on the floor? What is the point of going through all this motion when really the only two options are a violation or a Timeout? Why wouldn't the rules state: If A1 isn't in the Semicircle when the official is ready to administer the FT, a whistle shall be sounded and the coach is given the option for a TO or FT violation.

This would save time I think. As no coach knows the rule well enough to think about going for a TOP or just taking the violation.

9.1.3 SITUATION J:

The official administering a free throw awarded to A1 places the ball at his/her disposal. A1, who is inside the free-throw semicircle leaves the semicircle to confer with a teammate.

RULING: Violation. After the ball has been placed at the disposal of the free thrower, he/she is not permitted to leave or enter the free-throw semicircle without violating, until restrictions have ended. (9-1-3e Penalty 1)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Clarify for me, in the situation where B isn't occupying the lowest blocks, are they warned for delay on the first shot if it is good? or you just treat it as if nothing happened and then A1 shoots the second. If B isn't in position for the second FT and the FT is good, what is the ruling?

Maybe that's your confusion. there is no warning for this.

The "resumption of play" allows you to re-start the game after a TO when your only other choice would be a T. So, you can start without B occupying the lower spots.

If the shot is missed, then A gets a replacement FT. If B is not in place for the replacement FT, then it's a T on B.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Maybe that's your confusion. there is no warning for this.

The "resumption of play" allows you to re-start the game after a TO when your only other choice would be a T. So, you can start without B occupying the lower spots.

If the shot is missed, then A gets a replacement FT. If B is not in place for the replacement FT, then it's a T on B.

If the first attempt is good, the same procedure is used for the second. <--- this is the part that doesn't make sense. If the bucket is good there is no violation. It says the same procedure, which to me means. For the second shot, if it is good you have nothing. If there is a miss, a delayed violation is called on B and a replacement throw is awarded. If the second is made, then you have no delayed violation and no warning or T for delay. The ball will be dead and b will need to throw the ball in within 5 seconds. What am I missing?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

If the first attempt is good, the same procedure is used for the second. <--- this is the part that doesn't make sense. If the bucket is good there is no violation. It says the same procedure, which to me means. For the second shot, if it is good you have nothing. If there is a miss, a delayed violation is called on B and a replacement throw is awarded. If the second is made, then you have no delayed violation and no warning or T for delay. The ball will be dead and b will need to throw the ball in within 5 seconds. What am I missing?

Failure to provide players to the lower block on consecutive free throws is a T.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the shot is missed, then A gets a replacement FT. If B is not in place for the replacement FT, then it's a T on B.

Would you allow A to shoot the replacement FT before calling the T?

IMO, I would call the T. Clear the lane to shoot the replacement FT. Allow Team A to shoot the Technical FTs. Division line throw-in for team A.

The alternative would be to allow A to shoot the replacement FT. If he missed, allow another replacement FT followed by the T FTs. Gets a little messy but not completely unreasonable.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Would you allow A to shoot the replacement FT before calling the T?

IMO, I would call the T. Clear the lane to shoot the replacement FT. Allow Team A to shoot the Technical FTs. Division line throw-in for team A.

The alternative would be to allow A to shoot the replacement FT. If he missed, allow another replacement FT followed by the T FTs. Gets a little messy but not completely unreasonable.

At this point, treat it like any other time where B refuses to put two players in their spots. You can't administer the FT until they have them in place, so when they still fail to come out, just call the T rather than go through the motions again. Replacement shot will be taken with the lane clear. Now they can continue their timeout a bit longer.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Would you allow A to shoot the replacement FT before calling the T?

Right from the case play: If two B players are not in the required position when the official is ready to put the ball in play for the substitute throw, a delay of game technical foul will be assessed.