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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 12:08am
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Jump Ball Violation

A1 and B1 jumpers...B1 violates by catching jump ball.. throw in awarded to A and coach states that Team A should get the AP arrow too.

6.4.1 E...Team A gain possession establishes arrow..so Team B gets arrow.

Right application of rule?

P.S. Coach is also a local basketball offical..I hope that she did not know the rule versus trying to bait me into a mistake on purpose by knowing the rule
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 12:12am
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You got it right.
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 12:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
A1 and B1 jumpers...B1 violates by catching jump ball.. throw in awarded to A and coach states that Team A should get the AP arrow too.

6.4.1 E...Team A gain possession establishes arrow..so Team B gets arrow.

Right application of rule?

P.S. Coach is also a local basketball offical..I hope that she did not know the rule versus trying to bait me into a mistake on purpose by knowing the rule
Were you paying attention to the BYU/SDSU game?
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 07:17am
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Double Jeopardy ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
A1 and B1 jumpers...B1 violates by catching jump ball.. throw in awarded to A ... Team A gain possession establishes arrow..so Team B gets arrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
You got it right.
This would be the incorrect interpretation several years ago, which is what sometimes confuses a few older coaches, and "more experienced" officials.

Now stand back, and watch the Forum "light up with this next statement. If the timekeeper starts the game clock in error, then reset the game clock to 8:00. And, get ready for it, ... boom goes the dynamite.
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 07:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
This would be the incorrect interpretation several years ago, which is what sometimes confuses a few older coaches, and "more experienced" officials....
Don't confuse younger officials with old, outdated rules or interpretations. That's the only dynamite I have.
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 08:00am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Don't confuse younger officials with old, outdated rules or interpretations. That's the only dynamite I have.
Such as being able to enter the FT lane on the shooter's release?
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:01pm
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Legally Touched ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Don't confuse younger officials with old, outdated rules or interpretations. That's the only dynamite I have.
5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

I predicted that the dynamite would go boom. Anybody have any better citations? Anybody have any less "confusing" citations?
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:07pm
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From A Retired Thirty Plus Year Teacher ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Don't confuse younger officials with old, outdated rules or interpretations.
There's a reason why some believe the ball, and arrow, version. Your confusion can be somebody else's fuller understanding. If one knows the reason (it's the old rule) why some would believe that the team that didn't catch the jump ball would get both the ball, and the arrow, then it may be easier to understand the newer rule.
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
There's a reason why some believe the ball, and arrow, version. Your confusion can be somebody else's fuller understanding. If one knows the reason (it's the old rule) why some would believe that the team that didn't catch the jump ball would get both the ball, and the arrow, then it may be easier to understand the newer rule.
I disagree that it helps understand the newer rule, but it can help with understanding why a coach might think that, and help in the explanation to the coach.
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Old Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

I predicted that the dynamite would go boom. Anybody have any better citations? Anybody have any less "confusing" citations?
I don't really know why you'd need anything else. And you can catch the ball after it's been legally touched -- so having some time run off the clock is possible (and, I'd say, likely).
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Old Thu Nov 27, 2014, 03:04pm
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First Touch Violation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jerkins View Post
And you can catch the ball after it's been legally touched -- so having some time run off the clock is possible.
Agree (illegally catching the ball after a legal touch), with no reset of the game clock back to 8:00.

However, if the first touch is an illegal catch, and if the clock did mistakenly run down to 7:59, then the game clock should reset to 8:00. After all, the umpire (or nontossing official) should have never dropped their hand to chop in time, the hand should have remained up due to the first touch (catch) signaling the violation.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 03:16pm.
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Old Thu Nov 27, 2014, 03:14pm
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BillyMac Nye The Science Guy ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I disagree that it helps understand the newer rule.
The first year that I taught Earth Science, I taught my students that blue stars were the hottest, and that red stars were the coolest. I even gave them examples of a piece of steel being heated up becoming, progressively, red hot, orange hot, yellow hot, white hot, and finally blue hot, before melting. A few days later, many, including several of my better students, got questions regarding star color, and temperature, wrong on an exam. I questioned them about the reason why they got such simple questions wrong. They replied that hot water faucet labels are often colored red, and that cold water faucet labels are often colored blue. From then on, I always warned them not to confuse water faucet label colors with star colors (it's counterintuitive, as previous students had done in the past) on Astronomy exams. After that, there were seldom mistakes made by my students regarding star colors, and temperatures.

Find Cool, Red Stars in the Night Sky This Thanksgiving

Or, teaching my students that the symbol for Argon is Ar, and the symbol for Arsenic is As, and that these are often confused by students. So remember that Arsenic is one of the few common elements that gets its symbol from the first, and third letter, of its name, it's more of an exception than the rule.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 04:22pm.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 27, 2014, 06:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Agree (illegally catching the ball after a legal touch), with no reset of the game clock back to 8:00.

However, if the first touch is an illegal catch, and if the clock did mistakenly run down to 7:59, then the game clock should reset to 8:00. After all, the umpire (or nontossing official) should have never dropped their hand to chop in time, the hand should have remained up due to the first touch (catch) signaling the violation.
I don't agree. That touch is legal. The catching happens to violate a jumpball restriction, not a legal means of contacting the ball. The jumper didn't punch the ball. That would be an illegal touch.
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Old Thu Nov 27, 2014, 07:55pm
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Boom Goes The Dynamite ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I don't agree. That touch is legal. The catching happens to violate a jumpball restriction, not a legal means of contacting the ball. The jumper didn't punch the ball. That would be an illegal touch.
I respectfully disagree with you. The catching violates the jump ball rules, and is thus, illegal. Plus, a really good nontosser would have never chopped in the clock, so the mistaken timekeeper would have made a timing error, that should be corrected with definite knowledge.

How about touching the ball on the way up? Reset 7:59 to 8:00?
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Old Thu Nov 27, 2014, 08:06pm
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A1 makes a throw-in pass to A2 from a spot on the sideline. The pass is on the outside of the imaginary boundary plane as it travels down the court parallel to the sideline. A2 catches the ball with his feet inbounds, but his arms extended over the out of bounds area.
Do you start the clock or not?

A3's throw-in pass is in the imaginary cylinder above the basket when B2 is the first player to touch it.
Start the clock or not?

Last edited by Nevadaref; Thu Nov 27, 2014 at 08:08pm.
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