Jump Ball Violation

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Don't confuse younger officials with old, outdated rules or interpretations. That's the only dynamite I have.

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

I predicted that the dynamite would go boom. Anybody have any better citations? Anybody have any less "confusing" citations?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

I predicted that the dynamite would go boom. Anybody have any better citations? Anybody have any less "confusing" citations?

I don't really know why you'd need anything else. And you can catch the ball after it's been legally touched -- so having some time run off the clock is possible (and, I'd say, likely).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jerkins

And you can catch the ball after it's been legally touched -- so having some time run off the clock is possible.

Agree (illegally catching the ball after a legal touch), with no reset of the game clock back to 8:00.

However, if the first touch is an illegal catch, and if the clock did mistakenly run down to 7:59, then the game clock should reset to 8:00. After all, the umpire (or nontossing official) should have never dropped their hand to chop in time, the hand should have remained up due to the first touch (catch) signaling the violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree (illegally catching the ball after a legal touch), with no reset of the game clock back to 8:00.

However, if the first touch is an illegal catch, and if the clock did mistakenly run down to 7:59, then the game clock should reset to 8:00. After all, the umpire (or nontossing official) should have never dropped their hand to chop in time, the hand should have remained up due to the first touch (catch) signaling the violation.

I don't agree. That touch is legal. The catching happens to violate a jumpball restriction, not a legal means of contacting the ball. The jumper didn't punch the ball. That would be an illegal touch.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don't agree. That touch is legal. The catching happens to violate a jumpball restriction, not a legal means of contacting the ball. The jumper didn't punch the ball. That would be an illegal touch.

I respectfully disagree with you. The catching violates the jump ball rules, and is thus, illegal. Plus, a really good nontosser would have never chopped in the clock, so the mistaken timekeeper would have made a timing error, that should be corrected with definite knowledge.

How about touching the ball on the way up? Reset 7:59 to 8:00?

[Nevadaref]

A1 makes a throw-in pass to A2 from a spot on the sideline. The pass is on the outside of the imaginary boundary plane as it travels down the court parallel to the sideline. A2 catches the ball with his feet inbounds, but his arms extended over the out of bounds area.
Do you start the clock or not?

A3's throw-in pass is in the imaginary cylinder above the basket when B2 is the first player to touch it.
Start the clock or not?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A1 makes a throw-in pass to A2 from a spot on the sideline. The pass is on the outside of the imaginary boundary plane as it travels down the court parallel to the sideline. A2 catches the ball with his feet inbounds, but his arms extended over the out of bounds area.
Do you start the clock or not?

A3's throw-in pass is in the imaginary cylinder above the basket when B2 is the first player to touch it. Start the clock or not?

Great, thought provoking, questions Nevadaref. Thanks.

My interpretations, based on the rules: Start the clock in both situations.

5-9-4: If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock shall be started when the
ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by
the thrower.

I'm not quite sure why the NFHS states "touches, or is legally touched". To me, this seems like overkill, and it should be just "touches", or just "legally touches", based on the intent (I'm not even going to try to guess intent here) of the NFHS in this timing rule. "Touches" should take care of both legal, and illegal, touches, whereas, "legally touched" just takes care of legal touches. Why does the NFHS offer a choice here with the word "or"? If they wanted both legal, and illegal, touches to start the clock then they should have just gone with just he word "touches". If they wanted only legal touches to start the clock then they should have gone with just "legally touched". Again, why the choice? Why the "or?

That being said, let's go back to jump balls, where the rules specifically state "legally touched", and only "legally touched". To paraphrase my ninth grade Geometry teacher, Mr. Fiore, "if, and only if, legally touched". No if, ands, or buts; ors, nors, or fors.

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

Your move.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

Question: A1 and B1 Jumpers..A1 tips the ball and B1 catches ball off A1 tip.

LEGAL?

[APG]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Question: A1 and B1 Jumpers..A1 tips the ball and B1 catches ball off A1 tip.

LEGAL?

Was the ball initially legally touched? Yes. A1's tip was a legal touch.

Was B1's touch legal? No.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by APG

Was the ball initially legally touched? Yes. A1's tip was a legal touch.

Was B1's touch legal? No.

to be 100% clear..the fact that A1 legally touched the ball first with the tip still does not permit B1 to catch that tip.

This play happened in a game last night and I did not call a violation and Coach was on me..

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Question: A1 and B1 Jumpers..A1 tips the ball and B1 catches ball off A1 tip.

LEGAL?

Your question seems to imply that legally touching the jump ball ends the jump ball and the jump ball restrictions.

Does it? Answer that, and you'll have your answer.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Your question seems to imply that legally touching the jump ball ends the jump ball and the jump ball restrictions.

Does it? Answer that, and you'll have your answer.

Bob, PLEASE don't make me do it....I guess I have to...The COACH WAS RIGHT

Learned something new

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Your question seems to imply that legally touching the jump ball ends the jump ball and the jump ball restrictions.

The jump ball and the restrictions in 6-3-7 end when the touched
ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a basket or
backboard.