Why isn't throw in spot after a "T" POI...?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dixon21

I never asked you to do anything....this is an officiating forum where I thought we could discuss things like this and seek out opinions from other officials and have some discussions.....

quite honestly I am surprised by the "thats just the way it is, it all comes out in the wash, make your free throws" points of view.....

I would have thought there would have been more "you know it doesn't make a lot of sense" views in here.....but I guess I was wrong
...

OK, it doesn't make much sense to me.

But, why should I care either way? I choose not to muddle up my brain with "what I wish a rule would be" so that I can concentrate on what it actually is and administer it properly.

And since I bounce back-and-forth from college to HS games throughout the season, it's more important for me to know the rules than question them.

You asked a question, you got an answer, now you are still complaining. You must have been a coach at one time, because that what happens when coaches ask me about a rule they don't like.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dixon21

did you not read the initial post/situation....in this situation who got "punished" by moving the ball to half court.....it sure as heck wasn't the team that got the T.....

The punitive action is giving the ball to the team that was offended. Not to possibly give it to the team that caused the T in the first place. You got the ball, what is the problem? Putting in the ball under the basket does not necessarily make you have a better advantage. There are 3 seconds on the clock, not .3 seconds on the clock. That is plenty of time to shoot the ball from another position where under the basket you might not get a good look at all.

Again, this is not our problem. Because if the T was given to the team that was called for the FT and you give them the ball under their basket, some would say that was not right either. It is all about perspective.

Peace

[Dixon21]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That's your prerogative but that's one of the reasons as to why. Despite what you think, it is far simpler to say that a technical foul will result in two shots and the ball at the division line. The Fed has always put a premium on simplicity in enforcement and that's in all of their sports, not just basketball.



The problem is that the definition of fairness is rather subjective. I personally see nothing unfair with a uniform enforcement like they have now. That is fair in that it is a rule that applies to both teams.

the enforcement (two shots and the ball) is the same as an intentional foul....but the throw in spot is different....it actually adds another throw in spot to the equation making it less simple......

if we are going by this simplicity of enforcement that you speak of from a procedural standpoint....we should throw in intentional fouls from half court too.....

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The punitive action is giving the ball to the team that was offended. Not to possibly give it to the team that caused the T in the first place. You got the ball, what is the problem? Putting in the ball under the basket does not necessarily make you have a better advantage. There are 3 seconds on the clock, not .3 seconds on the clock. That is plenty of time to shoot the ball from another position where under the basket you might not get a good look at all.

Again, this is not our problem. Because if the T was given to the team that was called for the FT and you give them the ball under their basket, some would say that was not right either. It is all about perspective.

Peace

As a coach, I'd rather diagram a play from the division line than from underneath my basket. I would feel I could better utilize the spacing on the court.

I rarely see any plays where the PG runs down to the end line and yells "Motion!!!"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dixon21

the enforcement (two shots and the ball) is the same as an intentional foul....but the throw in spot is different....it actually adds another throw in spot to the equation making it less simple......

if we are going by this simplicity of enforcement that you speak of from a procedural standpoint....we should throw in intentional fouls from half court too.....

The thing is, not every technical foul happens at the spot where the ball was going to be put into play. The way it is now, once a T is called, we can forget about the previous spot and who had the ball and all that. It's simple, half court.

With an intentional foul, there is always a "spot of the foul."

Your change isn't a bad idea, but again, I think it's a solution in search of a problem. It doesn't happen often enough to be an issue. No more often than a team actually gets better field position because of the throw in spot.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Dixon21

the enforcement (two shots and the ball) is the same as an intentional foul....but the throw in spot is different....it actually adds another throw in spot to the equation making it less simple......

if we are going by this simplicity of enforcement that you speak of from a procedural standpoint....we should throw in intentional fouls from half court too.....

Now you're grasping. What is simpler than saying technical foul = division line?

An intentional foul always will have a throw in spot, the spot of the foul. A technical is not always going to have a spot of the foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dixon21

the enforcement (two shots and the ball) is the same as an intentional foul....but the throw in spot is different....it actually adds another throw in spot to the equation making it less simple......

if we are going by this simplicity of enforcement that you speak of from a procedural standpoint....we should throw in intentional fouls from half court too.....

And intentional foul has a lot differences for one, it is involves contact with a player, not just an act that might be called on anyone. The team called for an intentional foul might not even involve the ball. You are trying to be too cute with your logic. The rule is the rule, get over it. It is not changing at all for until the end of the season and I doubt the rule will even change at that time either.

Peace

[Dixon21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The punitive action is giving the ball to the team that was offended. Not to possibly give it to the team that caused the T in the first place. You got the ball, what is the problem? Putting in the ball under the basket does not necessarily make you have a better advantage. There are 3 seconds on the clock, not .3 seconds on the clock. That is plenty of time to shoot the ball from another position where under the basket you might not get a good look at all.

Again, this is not our problem. Because if the T was given to the team that was called for the FT and you give them the ball under their basket, some would say that was not right either. It is all about perspective.

Peace

the team that was offended already had the ball....and they were going to keep it and throw it in under the basket.....then there was a T and their throw in spot got moved to half court....if you or anybody else in here doesn't think that is a disadvantage I don't know what else to say....

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Dixon21

if you or anybody else in here doesn't think that is a disadvantage I don't know what else to say....

Why am I supposed to care? My job is to officiate the game according to the rules, not ensure everyone has a fair experience.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

As a coach, I'd rather diagram a play from the division line than from underneath my basket. I would feel I could better utilize the spacing on the court.

I rarely see any plays where the PG runs down to the end line and yells "Motion!!!"

Three seconds is a lot of time from the to ball being inbounded at the division line. Actually unless you can get the pass directly in the lane area, then you are making a possible bad pass or you are not going to get time to make a couple of passes to get the shot off in time. The division line at least gives you a chance to get someone up in a spot to take a decent shot. But I get your point. I just see plays work better in that situation away from the basket unless the defense completely misses an assignment, which usually does not happen that badly.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dixon21

the team that was offended already had the ball....and they were going to keep it and throw it in under the basket.....then there was a T and their throw in spot got moved to half court....if you or anybody else in here doesn't think that is a disadvantage I don't know what else to say....

I am aware of the who had the ball. My point is that it was not a tragic situation. The NBA runs plays all the time from half court and you see a spectacular play. Closer is not always better. But if that is the worst you have to complain about, that is not the rules makers problem. Because the alternative is to possibly give the ball to the other team and you get no shot at winning the game. At least you still had a chance in this specific situation.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three seconds is a lot of time from the to ball being inbounded at the division line. Actually unless you can get the pass directly in the lane area, then you are making a possible bad pass or you are not going to get time to make a couple of passes to get the shot off in time. The division line at least gives you a chance to get someone up in a spot to take a decent shot. But I get your point. I just see plays work better in that situation away from the basket unless the defense completely misses an assignment, which usually does not happen that badly.

Peace

Maybe we should let the offense check the ball at the top of the key after a 'T'. Or we can go all soccer-like and have them take penalty free throws from the spot of the infraction.

[Dixon21]

[QUOTE=Welpe;943834]Now you're grasping. What is simpler than saying technical foul = division line?

An intentional foul always will have a throw in spot, the spot of the foul. A technical is not always going to have a spot of the foul.[/QUOTE

????....wait wat....lol

T during live ball = throw in spot where the ball is at the time of whistle

dead ball T= wherever the ball was to be thrown in prior to T

[Welpe]

Spot of the foul != point of interruption

You do realize the throw in on an intentional foul is where the foul is, right coach?

[Dixon21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three seconds is a lot of time from the to ball being inbounded at the division line. Actually unless you can get the pass directly in the lane area, then you are making a possible bad pass or you are not going to get time to make a couple of passes to get the shot off in time. The division line at least gives you a chance to get someone up in a spot to take a decent shot. But I get your point. I just see plays work better in that situation away from the basket unless the defense completely misses an assignment, which usually does not happen that badly.

Peace

could go back and forth all day about different scenarios....time/score/ etc....but its not the point...for every one of your I'd rather have it at half court....I'll give you the 0.02 seconds left and I have a 7 foot center scenario where I want it under the hoop to make that in bounds pass...