The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 02:01am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Shooter Draws Foul (Video)

Trying to get back into seeing more and more plays before the start of the season. What say ye? Incidental? Marginal? Illegal?

__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 02:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Despite the cheap nature of the play an my wish that it be otherwise, it is a foul. Both were "responsible" for the contact but the defender is required to maintain LGP and he didn't.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 02:33am
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
I think I got nothing. The defender had returned to the floor before the small contact which I don't think had a bearing on the shot.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 05:41am
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,379
Nice One to Warm Up On

Was that a traveling violation prior to whatever contact did/did not occur?
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 07:03am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
I'm with JAR on this one. LBJ jumped into a stationary defender.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 08:11am
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Traveling under any rule set other than NBA. I don't have a foul at any level, defender returns to the floor before contact occurs, which was initiated by offensive player.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 08:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I'm with JAR on this one. LBJ jumped into a stationary defender.
Not much contact and defender seemed to hit ground before whatever contact there was. Lebron jumping around him almost. I let this one go.

If Lebron jumps into defender while defender is in air and moving towards him. (Mid air collision with more contact) I'd call the foul on defender.

As was mentioned earlier, Defender has to rise straight up. Think the play is in college case book.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 09:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 574
This is a foul under ANY rule set you choose to use…Once the defender moves forward towards the shooter (whether while on the floor or in the air), he has lost LGP. The contact is his responsibility.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 09:43am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
I have LBJ jumping into a defender that has already come back to the floor. I probably would pass on this if I saw this play clearly.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 09:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by twocentsworth View Post
This is a foul under ANY rule set you choose to use…Once the defender moves forward towards the shooter (whether while on the floor or in the air), he has lost LGP. The contact is his responsibility.
The defender stopped moving forward before the shooter left his feet. I don't know how the NBA works, but in high school, this looks like nothing to me. The defender is on the floor, straight up when the shooter leaves his feet.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 10:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by twocentsworth View Post
This is a foul under ANY rule set you choose to use…Once the defender moves forward towards the shooter (whether while on the floor or in the air), he has lost LGP. The contact is his responsibility.
I get where you are coming from. defender jumps forward, lands and is turned sideways. not in guarding position…defense is responsible for contact even when Lebron jumps in…
i'm not going to say that official is wrong under the rules for calling that a foul.
But on this play, in that circumstance, I want to see MORE contact. If Lebron gets a bigger piece of the guy when he jumps in then i will need to make a call and will call it on defense cause he is sideways etc. That is what I think about the play. thx
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 10:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
I get where you are coming from. defender jumps forward, lands and is turned sideways.
If you get to a spot first (considering any airborne or moving player issues)and are stationary, then it doesn't matter which way you face. LGP just gives you *extra* allowed movement.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 11:15am
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,379
Full plate: How to eat it . . . ?

Aside from what call you'd make, how 'bout some analysis of the coverage in the clip and the coverage you'd provide on a similar play?
If/when this play happens and you must make a call/no call, consider all that needs close scrutiny:
> defender's LGP or lack thereof
> ballhandler's possibility of traveling
> ballhandler's violation of defender's vertical, if LGP attained
> ballhandler's il/legal/marginal contact
> defender's il/legal/marginal contact
That's a full plate. Who's helping whom on this situation?
Is it correct that in this clip both C and T had a call on this, and C took it to the table?
If the play transitioned from T's backcourt to C's primary there, who should be looking at what? Would a travel be something the T would be looking for while C considered il/legal contact his priority, like between C and L in the post?
Any comments on the preferred coverage responsiblties here?
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 11:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
If you get to a spot first (considering any airborne or moving player issues)and are stationary, then it doesn't matter which way you face. LGP just gives you *extra* allowed movement.
Bob, my thoughts….

if the defensive player steps into the path of the offensive player he is considered to be attempting to guard. to be legal he has to have both feet down….front of torso facing opponent. he can jump but must be in his vertical plane. If I'm dribbling and you step in my path sideways with your shoulder facing me and we crash i believe foul is on you even though you got to the spot first and were stationary. your torso didn't face me.

In the video, this defensive player is trying to guard Lebron. He "while in the path" of Lebron jumps up and forward. if he ever had LGP he lost it when he jumped forward out of his vertical plane. When he lands he is still "in the path" of Lebron. His feet are on the floor but his torso doesn't face Lebron. ( i don't think it did) I don't think he re established legal guarding position. the fact that his feet got down before contact isn't enough imo.

As i said i wouldn't call foul cause not enough contact. i don't think the defensive players positioning in the video is legal.

maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say---- thx
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 11:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
If you get to a spot first (considering any airborne or moving player issues)and are stationary, then it doesn't matter which way you face. LGP just gives you *extra* allowed movement.
True, but in this case, I don't agree that the defender has stopped moving. He jumped forward quite a bit and, at best, he has one foot down when the first point of contact began and was still moving....thus he still required LGP.

The calling official had a great view of the play too....and had a foul.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Video Request Indiana Miami: Foul causes a travel (Video Added) Sharpshooternes Basketball 12 Fri May 24, 2013 04:44pm
Coach draws a throw RadioBlue Softball 13 Mon Apr 02, 2012 07:32pm
[NFHS] Post-season draws? Stat-Man Soccer 2 Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:20pm
Foul on Shooter then PC w_sohl Basketball 34 Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:51am
Sub for foul shooter Jim Henry Basketball 5 Tue Nov 23, 2004 01:48pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:22am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1