Shooter Draws Foul (Video)

[#olderthanilook]

More food for thought: from a Fed rules perspective, the rules state a defender must attain LGP by having both feet on the floor and the front part of the defender's torso must be facing the opponent.

The second criteria does not appear to have been met in this video.

[jeremy341a]

I feel the defender had landed and stopped moving forward before the contact. However I don't want to debate that part. Assuming I am correct about that my question is the following. Is LGP, the direction the defender is facing, even an issue? I don't feel it is but would like to hear others thoughts.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I feel the defender had landed and stopped moving forward before the contact. However I don't want to debate that part. Assuming I am correct about that my question is the following. Is LGP, the direction the defender is facing, even an issue? I don't feel it is but would like to hear others thoughts.

It is an issue to establish LGP. Once established, it is not. So the Defender had LGP, jumped forward towards the defender (thus losing LGP), and does not appear to have regained/reestablished LGP because he was not facing his opponent with 2 feet on the ground.

A no call, in my opinion, would have to be based on a judgement that the contact was incidental as described in 4-27, not because the defender was in LGP.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

It is an issue to establish LGP. Once established, it is not. So the Defender had LGP, jumped forward towards the defender (thus losing LGP), and does not appear to have regained/reestablished LGP because he was not facing his opponent with 2 feet on the ground.

A no call, in my opinion, would have to be based on a judgement that the contact was incidental as described in 4-27, not because the defender was in LGP.

What I'm saying is that does he even need legal guarding position if he beats the offensive player to the spot and is stationary.

[rsl]

LGP appears in the rulebook in three places:

4.7.2, which concerns charging, and describes what an offensive player must do to avoid a charge when the defender has LGP.

4.23, which defines LGP and describes the extra privileges you get from LGP.

4.45, which says you must have LGP for verticality.

None of these apply to contact initiated by the offense. We've debated this many times before in the context of a dribbler running into the back of a defender that is running away from him, or other situations where the offense starts the contact. LGP just does not apply here.

What if Lebron had shoved him in the back to get clearance for the shot. Would we call a defensive foul because the defender did not have LGP?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

What I'm saying is that does he even need legal guarding position if he beats the offensive player to the spot and is stationary.

But if he doesn't meet the requirement of LGP, he must still meet the requirements of screening.

It is illegal to jump in front of a moving opponent without either having LGP or allowing time and distance. LGP just allows a much later arrival to the spot (among other things).

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But if he doesn't meet the requirement of LGP, he must still meet the requirements of screening.

It is illegal to jump in front of a moving opponent without either having LGP or allowing time and distance. LGP just allows a much later arrival to the spot (among other things).

When screening a stationary opponent from front the screener must stop anywhere short of contact.

When screening a moving opponent, the screener must allow the opponent time and distance to avoid contact. The speed of the player screened will determine where the screener may take his stationary position.

Lebron was either stationary or moving very slowly when the "screen" took place. Since Lebron attempted to make contact and still made very little I think he was allowed time and distance to avoid the contact. I don't feel these were violated. Your thoughts please. Also I am looking at this from the NFHS side of things. thanks

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But if he doesn't meet the requirement of LGP, he must still meet the requirements of screening.

It is illegal to jump in front of a moving opponent without either having LGP or allowing time and distance. LGP just allows a much later arrival to the spot (among other things).

The light is flickering in my head now. I see what you are saying, i think…

1. Legal guarding position says i can be anywhere short of contact of a ball handler if I have two feet down and torso facing ball handler. I don't have to give ball handler time or distance to avoid contact. If I try to jump in at last second while he is dribbling i need to meet those two requirements.

2. a defender who is stationary can face any direction---doesnt need torso turned etc--- as long as the offensive player had time to avoid him he is ok. time and distance must be given.

in the video the defender jumps in the air forward. he loses LGP when he does that. doesn't maintain verticality. he lands sideways. this is not LGP. he doesn't get LGP back. However, if he is stationary when he lands and you determine that Lebron had time and distance to avoid him but chose not to---jumped in--it does not matter that defender didn't have LGP.

the defender is entitled to his spot on the floor. thx

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The light is flickering in my head now. I see what you are saying, i think…

1. Legal guarding position says i can be anywhere short of contact of a ball handler if I have two feet down and torso facing ball handler. I don't have to give ball handler time or distance to avoid contact. If I try to jump in at last second while he is dribbling i need to meet those two requirements.

2. a defender who is stationary can face any direction---doesnt need torso turned etc--- as long as the offensive player had time to avoid him he is ok. time and distance must be given.

in the video the defender jumps in the air forward. he loses LGP when he does that. doesn't maintain verticality. he lands sideways. this is not LGP. he doesn't get LGP back. However, if he is stationary when he lands and you determine that Lebron had time and distance to avoid him but chose not to---jumped in--it does not matter that defender didn't have LGP.

the defender is entitled to his spot on the floor. thx

Almost. A player with LGP can also, after obtaining it, face any direction...no time/distance required before contact. A defender in LGP can turn any direction they wish. It may not be useful or advisable, but they can. It is usually seen in the case of an imminent big crash where they turn to protect themselves from the impact.

Also, the jump forward doesn't, by itself, negate LGP nor does turning sideways (in the NFHS). As long as the defender remains 'in the path", only contact while moving forward negates LGP. So, if the defender, with LGP, stops moving forward before any contact, they will have had LGP the entire time and will keep LGP.