2014 Unannounced Changes? (e.g. Casebook 4.14.1 Sit. D)

[Scrapper1]

Has anybody found or posted a list of any unannounced rule changes for the current season's rule book?

[JetMetFan]

You've heard/seen something we need to know?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

You've heard/seen something we need to know?

No, but you just KNOW that they've made some, which is why I was hoping somebody else had put together a list.

I was discussing goaltending today and remembered that they removed "outside the cylinder" from the definition last year in an unannounced change. So I thought I would ask about this season's book.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

No, but you just KNOW that they've made some, which is why I was hoping somebody else had put together a list.

I was discussing goaltending today and remembered that they removed "outside the cylinder" from the definition last year in an unannounced change. So I thought I would ask about this season's book.

It's almost a given that there will be some unanounced changes that affect more than what they understand, and there will be announced changes that have little to no real impact on the rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

... they removed "outside the cylinder" from the definition last year in an unannounced change.

Goaltending. No. Basket Interference. Tastes great. No. Less filling.

[Freddy]

In Rule 4 . . .

4-15-3:
Was: "The dribble may be started by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted."
Now: "The dribble begins by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.
Assessment: I like any time they get rid of the word "may", I'm for it. Sometimes leaves options open that aren't really permitted. Wish they'd clean up 8-1-4 in similar fashion.

4-19-3d:
Oh wait, that one was "announced."

4-20-2:
Was: "The free throw starts when..."
Now: "The free throw begins when..."
Assessment: A distinction without a difference.

[Scrapper1]

Thanks, Freddy. The lack of traffic on this thread makes me feel like there might not be too many this year. I hope that's true. I'll start looking when I get my own books this week.

[APG]

Thoughts on this new casebook play?

*4.14.1 SITUATION D:

A1 is fouled by B1 while Team A is in double bonus. In frustration, A1 pushes B1 after the ball becomes dead. A1 is assessed a technical foul. A1 successfully makes both free throws for the personal foul assessed to B1. B3 is ready to attempt the free throw for the technical foul by A1. The official scorer notifies the officials that the technical foul on A1 was his/her fifth.

RULING: Officials notify the Team A coach and A1 of the disqualification and allow a substitute for A1. A correctable error has occurred by allowing the wrong player (A1) to attempt the free throws for the personal foul and has been discovered within the timeframe to correct. The free throws by A1 are cancelled and A1’s substitute shall attempt the free throws for the personal foul against A1 followed by the attempts by Team B for the technical foul. (2-10-1c, 4-14-1)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by APG

Thoughts on this new casebook play?

*4.14.1 SITUATION D:

A1 is fouled by B1 while Team A is in double bonus. In frustration, A1 pushes B1 after the ball becomes dead. A1 is assessed a technical foul. A1 successfully makes both free throws for the personal foul assessed to B1. B3 is ready to attempt the free throw for the technical foul by A1. The official scorer notifies the officials that the technical foul on A1 was his/her fifth.

RULING: Officials notify the Team A coach and A1 of the disqualification and allow a substitute for A1. A correctable error has occurred by allowing the wrong player (A1) to attempt the free throws for the personal foul and has been discovered within the timeframe to correct. The free throws by A1 are cancelled and A1’s substitute shall attempt the free throws for the personal foul against A1 followed by the attempts by Team B for the technical foul. (2-10-1c, 4-14-1)

Whoever came up with this RULING should be sent back to Basketball Officiating 101. R2-S10-A1c and R4-S14-A1 do NOT apply. The only rule that applies is: R4-S14-A2, which states: "A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel when the coach is notified by an official."

My first game of the season (also Mark, Jr.'s) is not until Nov. 13th and already I am gnashing my teeth and pulling out what little hair I left on my head.

MTD, Sr.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Whoever came up with this RULING should be sent back to Basketball Officiating 101. R2-S10-A1c and R4-S14-A1 do NOT apply. The only rule that applies is: R4-S14-A2, which states: "A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel when the coach is notified by an official."

Along with the Note on 2-11-5: The procedure if a player who has committed his/her fifth foul continues to play because the scorer has failed to notify the official is as follows: As soon as the scorer discovers the irregularity, the game horn should be sounded after, or as soon as, the ball is in control of the offending team or is dead. The disqualified player must be removed immediately. Any points which may have been scored while such player was illegally in the game are counted. If other aspects of the error are correctable, the procedure to be followed is included among the duties of the officials.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Along with the Note on 2-11-5: The procedure if a player who has committed his/her fifth foul continues to play because the scorer has failed to notify the official is as follows: As soon as the scorer discovers the irregularity, the game horn should be sounded after, or as soon as, the ball is in control of the offending team or is dead. The disqualified player must be removed immediately. Any points which may have been scored while such player was illegally in the game are counted. If other aspects of the error are correctable, the procedure to be followed is included among the duties of the officials.

Are you supporting "my" RULING or supporting the NFHS Casebook RULING? I believe that the Note in NFHS R2-11-A5 further supports "my" RULING. And should be included with NHFS R4-S14-A2.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The only rule that applies is: R4-S14-A2, which states: "A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel when the coach is notified by an official."

Nice citation Mark T, DeNucci.

In theory I agree with you, but I've always viewed specific casebook plays as "trumping" anything generic in the rulebook. It appears that the fact that the coach was not notified and that the "five foul player" made some free throws is now considered to be a correctable error.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice citation Mark T, DeNucci.

In theory I agree with you, but I've always viewed specific casebook plays as "trumping" anything generic in the rulebook. It appears that the fact that the coach was not notified and that the "five foul player" made some free throws is now considered to be a correctable error.

Or, as most of us have assumed, it might just be that someone wrote a case play without reviewing the rules or consulting someone else who had.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

Or, as most of us have assumed, it might just be that someone wrote a case play without reviewing the rules or consulting someone else who had.

It happens all too often for that to not be the case!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

...it might just be that someone wrote a case play without reviewing the rules or consulting someone else who had.

That's crazy talk. This is the NFHS. Something like that would never happen.