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Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 09:11am
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Flow vs. Rules

At last weekend's camp, I was praised by one instructor for a few off-ball calls. I appreciated the positive feedback, but it made me laugh at the same time.

One of the things that coaches' and fellow officials' evaluations dinged me on was that very thing -- "too many off ball calls" (partner) and "affects flow of the game" (coach). Granted, these were at the lowest end of the bell-shaped curve, and the instructor told me to heed none of it, but it makes you wonder how some people think.

I'm all for seeing a play through, especially the on-ball plays (contact affecting RSBQ, et al), but off-ball stuff happens that you have to deal with. I have to believe if some this "flow" garbage is "I want to get the game over with," whether the players are committing fouls or not. Do they expect us to ignore them, so they can get home earlier?
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Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 09:43am
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Chances are they didn't even see what happened that caused you to blow the whistle because they, like 99% of the people in the gym, are watching the player with the ball. And since the action you saw didn't get their attention, it must not have been significant enough to be called.

Like your clinician said - ignore that kind of comment and keep calling the off-ball fouls. That is what cleans up the game.
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Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 09:47am
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Off-ball fouls also have a pesky way of preventing dirty play/fights. Those they'll notice.
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Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 11:01am
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You're going to hear plenty of advice that should go in one ear and out the other. Ignoring off-ball fouls is one of them.

Coach - "They [off-ball foul calls] affect the flow of the game."
Me - "Coach... a foul is a foul. If you don't want them called, then tell your players not to commit them."
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Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 01:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post


Me - "Coach... a foul is a foul. If you don't want them called, then tell your players not to commit them."

Probably not the wisest answer for many reasons.
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Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:43pm
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Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
Probably not the wisest answer for many reasons.
It's Referee Bingo™: you keep crossing things off the board until you get to give a technical!
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Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 09:51pm
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Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
Probably not the wisest answer for many reasons.
Oh, I wouldn't say that... just think it. My actual reaction would probably be something like "a foul is a foul, regardless of where it's committed."
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 01:18am
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Oh, I wouldn't say that... just think it. My actual reaction would probably be something like "a foul is a foul, regardless of where it's committed."
Even that is not really that accurate.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 08:09am
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Random Initial Thoughts

A. Games that flow and necessary of ball fouls called need not be mutually exclusive.

B. Games experienced and studied on video that seemed to get out of control most frequently had ballwatching Officials who, with no clue of off ball primary surveillance principles, missed calls off ball that were the initial seeds of the rough play that cropped up later.

C. Those who complain about off ball fouls aren't looking where you are paid to look. But they will complain more if, by ignoring those calls, you thereby let the game get out of control.

Just some initial random thoughts on the OP...
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Last edited by Freddy; Sat Jun 28, 2014 at 08:44am.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 09:57am
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Quote:
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Those who complain about off ball fouls aren't looking where you are paid to look.
Rookie officials, and some experienced officials, as well as all coaches, and all fans, need to have this tattooed on their chests.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:24am
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You know what hurts the flow even more? Not calling off ball stuff.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 03:42pm
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Even that is not really that accurate.
Please elaborate.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 05:10pm
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Please elaborate.
Contact is situational. The very same contact may or may not be a foul depending on the game situation.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 05:43pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Contact is situational. The very same contact may or may not be a foul depending on the game situation.
I'm clearly not referring to whether or not contact in Case A is the same as contact in Case B, and whether or not it's a foul.

If a player fouls another player (not saying similar contact, but an actual foul), then it doesn't matter where it occurs... relative to the position of the ball.
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Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 05:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I'm clearly not referring to whether or not contact in Case A is the same as contact in Case B, and whether or not it's a foul.

If a player fouls another player (not saying similar contact, but an actual foul), then it doesn't matter where it occurs... relative to the position of the ball.
The problem is, "a foul is a foul..." is really a meaningless statement. It's a truism. Most of us know what you mean, but I wouldn't use it with a coach, because too many of them will hear "contact is a foul...."
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