Understanding Foul Definitions: A Flow Chart

[boiseball]

Anyone ever made some sort of a visual or a short synopsis of the various definitions found in 4-19 that summarizes how the different types of fouls interact and clarifies the important differences that have a substantive impact; I did some of that last night and I remember all the various threads where discussion was had about how something happened during a dead ball so it had to be bla bla bla, was hoping someone had made some sort of master synopsis of all those types of discussions; something I can memorize for just that moment where I need it;

and if I am making it all too hard, please let me know the simple stuff that you rely on; thanks

after making my flow chart last night and trying to understand the rule, I ran across pg 62 10-3-8 where it says "intentionally or flagrantly contacting an opponenet when the ball is dead and such contact is not a personal foul." I thought that any dead ball foul could not be a personal foul by definition, so this confused me; help

[Mark Padgett]

What!!! You mean there's redundancy in the NF rule book!!! Oh my heavens!!! Stop the presses!!!

[M&M Guy]

What!!! You mean there's redundancy in the NF rule book!!! Oh my heavens!!! Stop the presses!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by boiseball

after making my flow chart last night and trying to understand the rule, I ran across pg 62 10-3-8 where it says "intentionally or flagrantly contacting an opponenet when the ball is dead and such contact is not a personal foul." I thought that any dead ball foul could not be a personal foul by definition, so this confused me; help

Read 4-19-1......contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Read 4-19-1......contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.

JR - I think his point was the use of the word "and" in the rule. Using it implies you could have a foul in which an opponent is intentionally or flagrantly contacted when the ball is dead and have it be a personal foul. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need grammatically to use the phrase "and such contact is not a personal foul".

It wasn't a situation in which he didn't know the rule, it was that he thought the rulebook was self-confusing.

OK, I know "self-confusing" isn't a real word but maybe it will grow up to be one someday.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

JR - I think his point was the use of the word "and" in the rule. Using it implies you could have a foul in which an opponent is intentionally or flagrantly contacted when the ball is dead and have it be a personal foul. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need grammatically to use the phrase "and such contact is not a personal foul".

It wasn't a situation in which he didn't know the rule, it was that he thought the rulebook was self-confusing.

OK, I know "self-confusing" isn't a real word but maybe it will grow up to be one someday.

Mark, the poster said "I thought that any dead ball foul could NOT be a personal foul, by definition..." Well, by the definition that I cited, he thought wrong. That was my point. Contact on or by an airborne shooter after the ball is dead can be a personal foul.

[boiseball]

thanks for pointing out that additional language in the definition of personal foul, that clarifies what they must be referring to in 10-3-8; everytime I think I have found an error in the rule book, I find that it has humbled me once again;

of course, still looking for anyone who has put together a good, short synopsis of all types of fouls and what the important distinctions are or relationships among them; a synopsis that is a sure fire help when in the heat of the battle

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by boiseball

of course, still looking for anyone who has put together a good, short synopsis of all types of fouls and what the important distinctions are or relationships among them; a synopsis that is a sure fire help when in the heat of the battle

The FED rule book has a good technical foul summary on p.72 of the rule book. For some reason, quite a few officials don't seem to read that far.

[Mark Dexter]

A few years back, there was someone (either here or on McGriff) who was semi-obsessed with flowcharts and made a few of them. You could always try a search.

[Nevadaref]

I didn't make it, but I got a copy from someone and thought that it was a useful teaching tool. I gave it the president of my association and we now distribute the chart to all of our officials.

It has five boxes. 1. Foul 2. Player + Contact 3. Non-Player or Non-Contact 4. Personal 5. Technical

There are two arrows from box 1 to boxes 2 and 3. There are two arrows from box 2 to boxes 4 and 5. These arrows are labeled "Live Ball" and "Dead Ball" respectively. There is also an arrow from box 3 to box 5.

Below box 4 are the words: "Intentional", "Flagrant", "Common", "Other Personal ("Normal" on Shooter)".

Below box 5 are the words: "Intentional", "Flagrant", "Other Technical (Team or Administrative)".

I've added "(except by or on an airborne shooter)" below the words "Dead Ball" and drawn an additional arrow from there back to box 4.