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-   -   Sign of things to come (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97993-sign-things-come.html)

APG Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 935312)
I believe the rule is the same on this in the NBA, but I'm not sure.

In the NBA, everyone can enter in on the release except the shooter...players on the outside included.

Adam Mon Jun 02, 2014 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 935316)
In the NBA, everyone can enter in on the release except the shooter...players on the outside included.

Good thing I didn't claim to be sure. :)

Nevadaref Wed Jun 04, 2014 07:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 935193)
First summer tournament. Rule change allowing players along free throw lane to enter on release.

A1 shooting 1-1, first shot, players move in, A2 fouls B1, shot goes in. Team B is in the bonus. Clear the lanes, shoot the second, go to other end shoot 1-1.

I was part of a HS instructional camp last weekend as a court observer. On another court this situation occurred with 10 seconds remaining in a 1pt game.
The advice of the court observer: have a patient whistle. If the FT goes in, then calling the foul probably isn't necessary, unless the contact is severe. If the FT is missed, then a late whistle will likely get general acceptance.

I agree with his advice and think of this in terms of possession consequence and cleaning up rough play. There isn't any possession consequence on a made FT and only a few seconds remaining in the game probably isn't the time to be cleaning up rough play. I'm going to teach that such fouls need to be in the category of "can't ignore it."

Raymond Wed Jun 04, 2014 08:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 935434)
I was part of a HS instructional camp last weekend as a court observer. On another court this situation occurred with 10 seconds remaining in a 1pt game.
The advice of the court observer: have a patient whistle. If the FT goes in, then calling the foul probably isn't necessary, unless the contact is severe. If the FT is missed, then a late whistle will likely get general acceptance.

I agree with his advice and think of this in terms of possession consequence and cleaning up rough play. There isn't any possession consequence on a made FT and only a few seconds remaining in the game probably isn't the time to be cleaning up rough play. I'm going to teach that such fouls need to be in the category of "can't ignore it."

This advice pretty much applies to any rebounding fouls. Have a patient whistle unless there is rough play that needs to be cleaned up.

BillyMac Wed Jun 04, 2014 04:52pm

I Hate It When That Happens ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 935436)
This advice pretty much applies to any rebounding fouls. Have a patient whistle unless there is rough play that needs to be cleaned up.

About once a year I have a situation where I believe that a rebounding foul has occurred and I sound my whistle, to then observe, a split second later, that the foulee now has the rebound easily in his possession. I swear that I'll never be fooled like that again, but I always am.

Camron Rust Wed Jun 04, 2014 06:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 935494)
About once a year I have a situation where I believe that a rebounding foul has occurred and I sound my whistle, to then observe, a split second later, that the foulee now has the rebound easily in his possession. I swear that I'll never be fooled like that again, but I always am.

Sometimes, those fouls still need to be called....if only to discourage the behavior that you observed.

The game has degraded too far in the direction of not calling a foul if the player is still able to get the ball (or get by the defender, or make the shot). That can certainly be a factor, but it is taken too far. The advantage gained/lost is not always the end result but the effect how the rest of the game is played.

Adam Thu Jun 05, 2014 08:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 935496)
Sometimes, those fouls still need to be called....if only to discourage the behavior that you observed.

The game has degraded too far in the direction of not calling a foul if the player is still able to get the ball (or get by the defender, or make the shot). That can certainly be a factor, but it is taken too far. The advantage gained/lost is not always the end result but the effect how the rest of the game is played.

And also the follow up play. IOW, if the player gets the ball but, due to the illegal contact, is now in a significantly less advantageous position with the ball, a foul should be called.

Camron Rust Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 935507)
And also the follow up play. IOW, if the player gets the ball but, due to the illegal contact, is now in a significantly less advantageous position with the ball, a foul should be called.

Or if it discourages him/her from trying to get the next rebound because it was too risky (rough play), that is also a foul.

Pantherdreams Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 935511)
Or if it discourages him/her from trying to get the next rebound because it was too risky (rough play), that is also a foul.

I'm not sure that I'm understanding you on this.

Are you saying that a foul should be called if I judge that a player may not want to go get the next rebound because the player thinks the play that just happened is too rough?

rockyroad Thu Jun 05, 2014 01:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 935515)
I'm not sure that I'm understanding you on this.

Are you saying that a foul should be called if I judge that a player may not want to go get the next rebound because the player thinks the play that just happened is too rough?

I think that is what he is saying...Camron will correct me if I am wrong, but we always call it the "3 minutes later" principle. As in, if I don't call that now, what will this game be like in 3 minutes?

AremRed Thu Jun 05, 2014 01:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 935515)
Are you saying that a foul should be called if I judge that a player may not want to go get the next rebound because the player thinks the play that just happened is too rough?

No, he's saying rough play should always be cleaned up and one of the benefits of cleaning it up is players won't be afraid to try to get rebounds because of rough play.

Camron Rust Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 935519)
I think that is what he is saying...Camron will correct me if I am wrong, but we always call it the "3 minutes later" principle. As in, if I don't call that now, what will this game be like in 3 minutes?

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 935520)
No, he's saying rough play should always be cleaned up and one of the benefits of cleaning it up is players won't be afraid to try to get rebounds because of rough play.

And....Yep.

Camron Rust Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 935515)
I'm not sure that I'm understanding you on this.

Are you saying that a foul should be called if I judge that a player may not want to go get the next rebound because the player thinks the play that just happened is too rough?

If he is hesitant to go for a board because he is getting the crap beat of of him, yes. The fact that the right team gets the rebound is not always a reason to avoid calling the foul. It can be much of the time, but not as much as some take it. Sometimes, the contact just shouldn't be part of the game of basketball.

johnny d Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 935541)
If he is hesitant to go for a board because he is getting the crap beat of of him, yes.

Then he shouldn't be playing basketball in the first place!

Camron Rust Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 935567)
Then he shouldn't be playing basketball in the first place!

No, he shouldn't be playing football.


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